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Old 30th Jan 2010, 11:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Dreambuilders - The 4Life Riovida MLM Scam

I get MLM-related mails all the time, and they just piss me all the time by their ridiculous claims and questionable testimonies. Take a look at the latest one I received on 4Life Riovida...

Quote:
Hi xxxxxxx,
You should read the following testimonies from our BSM:

Product Testimony by Anne Wong:
I had a near life threatening food allergy experience last Friday after taking one bowl of red bean soup.

3 hours after taking the red bean soup and at that time I was at home, I felt a severe pain at the lower part of my abdominal and my left leg.I broke out into cold sweat all over and then begun to have breathing difficulty as well.

It was so severe to the point that I could not walk properly but have to crawl to go down stair to reach out for my Transfer Factor

10 minutes after taking 10 TF and 10 TF Advance my situation continued to get worse until my face all turn pale and lips turn purple. I crawled down again, this time I took 1/2 bottle of Rovida. Only within a short time, my body responded to Rovida and probably together with TF and TF Advance, I started to burp and release gases. I felt immediate relief and within 1/2 hour, my pain subsided and back to almost normal.

4Life products saved my life, without them I may not be here talking to you all and thanks to God who gave me a chance to live. Thank you my up line Grace as wellwho introduce 4life to me.

I have 4 lives:
My parent gives 1 life
TF has already saved my life
TF also gives another life by providing a business opportunity
TF also shield me with a healthy life
Thank you 4Life!!!


Business Testimony by Grace Wang:

When things appears to be impossible, it is beyond our expectation that the situation can take a turn and become a miracle. 9 months ago, I approached a Chinese Doctor about 4life. Though he was polite, he was not was not easy to convince. I follow-up with him almost every month but met with rejection and it effected my moral each time.

Finally, he agreed to purchase 1 bottle of TF Advance for his young patient about 9 years of age who suffered from rheumatoid arthritis. I called the doctor frequently for the progress report. His usual answer was “the patient has not picked up the TF” and after awhile, he told me that the patient is not returning his clinic probably because of him selling TF Advance to the patient.

By faith believing that the TF must have worked,I recently received an unexpected call from the patient's mother named Ah Fong who obviously got my contact from the doctor. She called and said wanted to know more about TF.

Apparently her daughter has been on steroid drugs for 1 and the half years and the side effects includes swelling of the whole body. Ah Fong was surprised to see her daughter having a lot less pain after taking one bottle of TF Advance.

I passed the prospect to Anne to follow-up. Of course Anne shared her life saving testimony with Ah Fong. She then signed up a diamond pack.
Praise God for germinating this seed when I already have almost given-up. I pray for the miracle recovery of this young patient.

Dare to Dream the Uncommon Dream,
Nancy
I've seen several family members join these MLM schemes and time and time again, losing money and quitting them before joining a new one. There is always a new fad on the horizon, from lingzhi to noni juice and now transfer factors... It's really sickening. They should ban MLMs. They are virtually legalized pyramid schemes!

I decided to bite the bullet and shoot this reply to my aunt whom I love, but I think really needs a major wake-up call. She has been cheated by these schemes so many times in the past, and Riovida is no different... not when a 500 ml bottle of this stuff costs about RM 120 (US$ 36)!!!

Quote:
I have to say I was not born a skeptic... but became one after encountering and observing participants of so many MLM schemes.

Everyone used to rage about lingzhi, noni juice and mangosteen skin juice. Now it’s Riovida and Millennium cactus juice. How amazing for us to discover so many new miracles. But whatever happened to the old ones? No longer powerful? Too “outdated”? How can that be? They used to cure everything from cancer to impotence. Surely their efficacy isn’t affected by the level of our belief in them... If we must believe for them to work, then they would be nothing more than PLACEBOS!

There is a reason why these “health foods” are never put to a proper double-blinded test, or sold by reputable doctors and hospitals. These companies know there is no way they can prove their claims. Ask them for the studies that they quoted. Were they peer-reviewed and published in reputable journals?

There is a reason why these “health foods” are always sold through MLM. No, it is not to let you build dreams... nor is it their way of sharing the wealth. Based on available data from these MLM companies, more than 99% of participants lose money after subtracting all expenses, including purchases from the company.

If that’s the case, where did the obscene amount of money that MLM schemes make go to? Why, to the top 1%, or the people who came up with these MLM schemes! No, they did not create MLM schemes to make you rich. They created it so that YOU will make THEM rich. You are nothing more than their customers cum unpaid marketers.

Sure, they tell you that you “own” the business... but the reality is they own YOU. Let’s see what is being reported about MLMs :

Quote:
• The Times ("The Government investigation claims to have revealed that just 10 per cent of Amway’s agents in Britain make any profit, with less than one in ten selling a single item of the group’s products."),

• Scheibeler, a high level "Emerald" Amway member stated "UK Justice Norris found in 2008 that out of an IBO [Independent Business Owners] population of 33,000, 'only about 90 made sufficient incomes to cover the costs of actively building their business.' That's a 99.7 percent loss rate for investors.")

• Newsweek (where it is stated based on MonaVie's own 2007 income disclosure statement "fewer than 1 percent qualified for commissions and of those, only 10 percent made more than $100 a week.)"

• Business Students Focus on Ethics: "In the USA, the average annual income from MLM for 90% MLM members is no more than US$5,000, which is far from being a sufficient means of making a living (San Lian Life Weekly 1998)"

• USAToday: "While earning potential varies by company and sales ability, DSA says the median annual income for those in direct sales is $2,400."
Also....

Quote:
A recent analysis of Quixtar's reported income figures indicates how poorly most MLM distributors do. In a declaration filed in a suit by two former Quixtar distributors, he concluded:

A statistical sample of distributors revealed that 99.4% of the IBOs [independent business owners] earned on average just $13.41 per week—before product purchases, all business expenses, and taxes. This average income is far less than the costs of the business, resulting in 99% of victims of Quixtar making no net profit. Fewer than 1 person in 10,000 are at the "Diamond and above" levels, the upper ranks of the Quixtar chain that every new recruit is urged to aspire to. . . .

The massive loss rates among Quixtar victims that are revealed in Quixtar's own data are the inevitable mathematical result of the endless chain business model. In this model, the success of the IBO is based on continuous recruiting of additional distributors (IBOs), who are induced to make monthly purchases for their own consumption, rather than on making retail sales in the open marketplace. In the recruitment model, only those participants at the top levels of the pyramid can earn true profits, since the source of a participant's real income is the expenditures of individuals below them on the pyramid, and only a small percentage can be in those top positions. The untenable model result in approximately 70% of IBOs quitting Quixtar within the first year. The mission of this deceptive business model is to continuously enroll losing investors (IBOs) and replace them as they suffer losses and quit the program.

Many distributors who stock up on products to meet sales goals or increase their hoped-for commissions get stuck with unsold products that cost thousands of dollars.
But enough about MLMs in general. Let’s look at Riovida. What is Riovida? Apparently, it’s made from :

Quote:
Transfer Factor E-XF™ (a patented concentrate of transfer factors and other natural components from cow colostrum and egg yolk), NanoFactor™ extract (a proprietary concentrate of nano-filtered cow colostrum.), Lactoferrin, RioVida Juice Blend (Açai, Pomegranate, Blueberry, Elderberry, Grape, Apple), and Vitamin C.
Basically, cow colostrum, egg yolk, lactoferrin and a blend of fruit juices with some vitamin C thrown in. It’s a little odd to see them add vitamin C when the fruit juice already has vitamin C... But whatever mix they use, the magic ingredient are these transfer factors in the cow colostrums. How magical are these transfer factors?

Quote:
The term “transfer factor” has various unrelated meanings in science. Its first use related to immunity stems from research performed by Dr. H.S. Lawrence of New York University in the 1940s.

In Lawrence’s work, transfer factor referred to “an extract of human white blood cells that could transfer a type of immunity called cell-mediated immunity,” says Dr. Burton Zweiman, a professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania who worked in Lawrence’s lab 40 years ago. “Investigation of TF has been somewhat erratic over the years, with both supporters and deniers of its biologic importance.”

I am not aware of any studies of transfer factor being obtained from cow colostrum and [transferring] immune reactivity to humans,” says Dr. Zweiman. “Nor could I find any reference to it in a Medline search of the medical literature.

A spokeswoman for the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, a division of the National Institutes of Health, says, “NCCAM has not funded any research on this therapy, nor have I heard of it before now.

The conclusion,” Dr Fudenberg says forcefully, “was that the commercial firms making this for humans were invariably run by people who were not scientists and who didn’t care whether their products were harmful or not.”

Fudenberg insists there is nothing to support the supposed efficacy of products made from cow’s colostrum — and even contends they are potentially harmful to people with allergies to lactose or any other substances derived from cows. "Beware of any transfer factor not made from human cell lines," he warns.
And look at this :

Quote:
City Paper forwarded a transcript of 4Life’s promotional audio cassette “From Here to Immunity,” which was distributed at the seminar in Valley Forge, to various immunologists, microbiologists and biochemists. Those who responded were skeptical.

“Speaking from a standpoint of mainstream medicine, there is not a lot of familiarity [with] or support for this kind of practice,” says Dr. James T. Li, professor of medicine at the Mayo Medical School in Rochester, MN, and member of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. “This is a form of alternative treatment,” he says, which, he adds, almost by definition means there is little evidence to support its proponents’ claims — at least not the kind of evidence doctors and scientists generally like to see.

Li hesitates to call 4Life’s claims misleading or false, but says, “I would be skeptical, and I would advise others to be as well.”

Others are more blunt.

“Most of the clinical studies of transfer factors have been based on the specificity of each transfer factor,” says Dr. Charles Kirkpatrick, professor of medicine at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Division of Allergy and Clinical Immunology — who says he once declined 4Life’s offer to act as a consultant.

For example, he explains, “a transfer factor that is specific for Herpes simplex will prevent recurrent infections with this virus. The approach being used by 4Life and other companies is to ignore the specificity issue and make non-specific claims for boosting the immune system.
In other words, 4Life intentionally glosses over the fact that EACH transfer factor is SPECIFIC to a particular antigen. That means there is no such thing as a UNIVERSAL transfer factor. To protect against ALL infectious diseases, they would have to deliver an incredibly complex mix of tens of thousands of transfer factors in sufficient quantities to have an effect on the body’s immunity.

But 4Life knows that... which is why they make sure their disclaimers states that “Transfer Factor and Transfer Factor Plus do not claim, nor should it be interpreted, to cure, prevent or mitigate any serious disease.” And this: “These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.In other words, they do not claim it does anything to improve your health.

Now, what can you do to improve your health without paying INSANE prices for what’s basically a mix of cow’s milk and fruit juice? Simple...

1. Don’t smoke and you will have reduced about half your risk of serious illnesses from chronic lung diseases (including cancer) to heart disease and even impotence.

2. EAT the fruit! Why drink only the juice when you can benefit even more from eating it? Eating the fruit gives you FIBRE! Plus, it’s fresher and more nutritious than something that has been squeezed out, processed and treated to last in storage.

3. Have more sex. A good sex life has been proven to increase lifespan and improve health. Yes, it’s been scientifically proven, unlike Riovida and all these MLM “health” products. Plus, it’s FREE, so you have no excuse not to do it, do it!

4. Exercise! Don’t expect to be very healthy if you lead a sedentary lifestyle. Quaffing Riovida (or whatever health scam you prefer) by the barrel is not going to replace exercise. If you don’t believe, try and see.

5. Avoid unhealthy foods that contain transfat, nitrates and nitrites. Reduce intake of salt and sugar. Basic common sense stuff. This goes a long way to improving your health without burning a hole in your wallet.

6. Reduce stress by not participating in MLM schemes. You want to succeed in life? Then go out there and JUST DO IT! Stop pursuing the “dream” that MLM folks are selling you. Is it really YOUR dream or THEIR dream? Running around trying to pursue these MLM schemes (see above) is very stressful. That AGES you faster, and it is a PROVEN fact. It also causes health problems, another proven fact. So help improve your health and wealth by staying away from MLMs.


If you want to generate passive income, there are other better methods. Look at rich folks. Do you think they got rich doing MLM? They know the secret to passive income and it is NOT by joining MLM schemes. But even they will tell you that there’s no easy path to health or wealth. You must be willing to work your way, not rely on these get-rich-quick pyramid schemes, cause ultimately, 99% of you guys will fail and lose not only money but time and OPPORTUNITY as well.
Wake up, people!!!!

Last edited by Adrian Wong : 2nd Dec 2010 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 30th Jan 2010, 11:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Here's another "testimonial" on Riovida...

Quote:
Hi Lay Beng,

Don't miss this Wed BSM at Subang Jaya Dream Center, as Richard will sharing on his personal success story.

Here's one from last week's recognition nite, our new Diamond, Quester Fong:

I am a former CEO & share holder to a corporate gift supply company, with 1 Hong Kong company & 1 Local IT company share holder. After the partnership was dissolved,I am now running my the business on my own.

Initially I rejected the 4life opportunity when presented by Tham in Feb 2009 because of previous failure in another MLM of which we were both involved.
We did the business enthusiastically for more than 5 years but only earn no more than Rm 2,000 plus minus. The income was unstable, due the unbalance & low pay plan. Many of our down line gave up because they can't even earn enough per month income to self sustain the monthly maintenance of RM 300 - 500 plus personal quota in order to get overriding.

Finally, I signed up Diamond Pack in Nov 6, 2009. Surprisingly, TF gave me enormous amount of energy that I don't feel tired like before.

My 15 month old daughter falls sick easily, with running nose & weak immunity, because my wife breast fed her for only 1 week after birth. The doctor couldn't help with her condition.My wife diligently fed my daughter with 1 Plus/day by opening the capsule & mixed in the milk with 30 ml Riovida once a day. In less than 2 weeks, she became extremely healthy & did not fall sick or have running nose anymore until now!

Sold 1 bottle Plus to Miss Kwan from Alzheimer Association after infected by heavy flu & sinus in the exhibition hall. Miss Kwan recovered on the 2nd day after consuming 15 Plus/day. She was impressed & sign-up a Diamond Pack!

Sold 1 bottle TF to neighbour's who was seeking high & low, trying all types of health products from AMWAY, COSWAY, etc...for her 6 years old daughter with chronic sinus, cough, phlegm & sleepless nights. Within 1 week her daughter feel dramatic improvement in health & slept soundly. The mother thanked me from the bottom of her heart, that TF had help her daughter from a 6 years of suffering with weak immunity & sinus cough & phlegm & sleepless nights!

My turning point to see the value of TF more significantly was on Dec end 2009. When I presented the BP to Dr. Madelyna Ong, she asked if TF is Rm1K per bottle? She has never seen in her Nutritional literature a Natural Biotechnology product can increase NK Cells activity 437% which is the highest in the world compared to any Nutriënt, Anti-oxidant,or Herbal!If the TF is sold via her BIOTECH pharmaceutical company it would be more than Rm230!

Presently, her Multiple Sclerosis (MS) patients (which is CONFIRMED/NO CURE in the medical industry!) pays RM 4,000 per box for 1 month's medication just to control the symptoms.

Dr. Madelyna Ong signed up as Diamond pack without hesitation and ask me to meet up with the President of MS Patient association.

My first month cheque is RM1,263 & my 2nd month cheque is RM 1,500 plus! Other than earning a good income to supplement my own consumption of TF to keep my family healthy & I am helping others to be wealthy & healthy at the same time! That's the most noble thing in life comparing to the traditional business in a "dog eat dog world". Where you have to make someone lose before you can win the business or order...sad but true.

But with 4Life everyone is welcome to WIN! See you at the TOP!

Dare to Dream the Uncommon Dream,
Nancy
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Old 31st Jan 2010, 06:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I received this reply :

Quote:
Thank you for your comment.
You are absolutely right of what you said about MLM.
It would however be useful to you to read to the more than 4,000 research paper done on transfer factor.
Our product does not cure anything.
All it does is to educate and balance our immune system.
As you know, it's our immune system that takes care of us.
Unfortunately, over time, they don't do their job too well.
And they also became imbalance.
And all transfer factor does is to educate and balance our immune system.
And this is nothing new.
Hypocrites, father of modern medicine said "Everything we need to take care of ourselves is already within us"
And he was right.

Transfer factor is only discovered in 1949.
You could also go to the website: 4liferesearch.com or the internet to read about the research paper.
You could also download a book written by Dr Ahmad Haleem called "THE TRUTH" here - Blue Ocean Group


Hope that this would be of help.
I hate it when people start quoting doctors as authoritative sources of information. Yes, many doctors know what they are talking about, but like all humans, they are fallible. Yes, that includes ME.

There are certainly more than a few black sheeps who don't mind sullying their professional credentials for quick money by supporting such pseudoscience babble. I always tell people this - "Don't just rely on what I say. Always get a SECOND OPINION!"

Anyway, this was my reply :

Quote:
I would love to read ANY of the 4,000 research papers that purportedly shows that Riovida “educates” and “balances” our immune system. The thing is they do NOT actually look into transfer factors from cows being used to “educate” and/or “balance” a human immune system. But if there are any that do, please forward

You will note that despite the purported 4,000 research papers, 4Life does NOT stand behind their products. After all, they plainly admitted that “Transfer Factor and Transfer Factor Plus do not claim, nor should it be interpreted, to cure, prevent or mitigate any serious disease.” And that “This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.” Their own words, not mine.

FYI, our immune system is designed to learn by itself. Whenever it comes into contact with a pathogen, it learns how to combat the pathogen. So why do we need to introduce additional transfer factors (that may or may not do anything in the first place) when our body already has its own system of “educating” itself?

I like to tell many MLMers this... If their product actually works as advertised, pharmaceutical companies would pay them BILLIONS of dollars to market their product, and the medical community would love to prescribe them to their patients. Why give up this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make tons of money? Could it not be because they cannot certify that their product actually does anything at all?

The US FDA had already cited 4Life for misrepresenting their products as cures for diseases. 4Life cannot claim that their product can ever cure anything because they have not put their product to the test to prove that it is a cure for any disease. True enough, their disclaimer states it quite clearly. Why dispute what 4Life is already admitting?
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 10:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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As a Network Marketer (not for 4life Riovida) of some 8 years I just had to answer this.

The fact that some people join MLM/Network Marketing schemes and fail is not the fault of MLM/Network Marketing. Surely the fault lies within the person who joined but did not apply a system.

It reminds me of when the Beatles joined that TM yogi guy, and then said meditation failed them. Obviously they quit to soon to benefit. As meditation is now a recognized system of calming the mind and body, it is scientifically proven.

So quitters can bad mouth whatever, but the fact is: it is the quitter who has the problem not necessarily whatever they bad mouth.

MLM/Network Marketing is a simple and honest way of shifting products from a producer to a customer. It is the same as anyother business model, the only difference being rather than a group of middlemen (marketers, wholesalers, etc), it has a network of ordinary people promoting the goods. It's like all the movies I go to see. Then I tell my friends, "Oh it was really great, you've got to see it". So they take my word and go along to the theatre. I don't get paid, but I've just made a sale for the theatre, the production company, the movie stars, etc. So my word of mouth is generating income and paying the wages of the movie stars to the lady who cleans the toilets in the local theatre. I see no problem with me getting a cut of the profits that I help generate.

That's what MLM/Network Marketing is about. Rewarding satisfied customers who generate sales by introducing the products to their friends or whoever. This is free enterprise for the common man or woman.

So rather than try to rip the MLM/Network Marketing system apart, why not focus on why people fail. People fail for so many reason. Just as we have doctors who fail their patients and induce unnecessary suffering and/or death. We have policemen who fail by abusing their power and beat up women for being drunk or whatever. We have scientists who fail. I mean how many times did Edison fail before he got the right formula for the electric lamp? Failure is just part of the problem, lack of understanding is the real problem.

I also would add that without taking my daily supplements of vitamin and minerals, I'd not be enjoying the health that I do. Obviously those with a vested interest do not want to hear success stories of those who use supplements or alternative medicines, but the facts speak for themselves. Real people are benefiting from these sort of products, whether sold by MLM or the local drug store!

I would also add, that only 1 out of every 5 business get beyond their 1st year. Should we put a blanket ban on all new start up's? Just like the FDA, you do not have an objective view, just a biased opinion.
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 11:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Real men & women doesn't need supplements

I don't even remember when is the last time I took vitamin C and I rarely get fever and cold. I didn't even bother taking flu-shots And I eat rather unhealthy. Not McD everyday or something like that, just drink lots of water. I dont take much candy or other drinks other than water. Need more exercise right now I need running shoes

The last time I took a supplement from some MLM related product. I actually felt weaker and got sick even more often

Plus, MLM doesn't work for everyone. It is only beneficial for those very very very determined business minded people with marketing skills.
My parents join one of this scheme once, they quit because they aren't determined and it takes a lot of effort and time.

Screw health food
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 11:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's just his reactionary "They should BAN MLM. They are virtually legalized pyramid schemes!" ignorance that I'm addressing. Doewsn't the guy realize that every form of business is a "pyramid scheme", yes even those operated by the government. I mean, look at the banking system - pyramid scheme. Look at insurance - pyramid scheme. Look at our retirement pensions - pyramid scheme. Look at the McDonalds - pyramid scheme. Look at Walmart - pyramid scheme. Any system which has money filtering downard is a pyramid scheme by definition. Any system (banks, pensions, etc) which relies upon money coming in to pay money out is a pyramid scheme.

I also question his belief in the FDA and big Pharma, how corrupt are those guys???
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 01:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwa1952 View Post
It's just his reactionary "They should BAN MLM. They are virtually legalized pyramid schemes!" ignorance that I'm addressing. Doewsn't the guy realize that every form of business is a "pyramid scheme", yes even those operated by the government. I mean, look at the banking system - pyramid scheme. Look at insurance - pyramid scheme. Look at our retirement pensions - pyramid scheme. Look at the McDonalds - pyramid scheme. Look at Walmart - pyramid scheme. Any system which has money filtering downard is a pyramid scheme by definition. Any system (banks, pensions, etc) which relies upon money coming in to pay money out is a pyramid scheme.

I also question his belief in the FDA and big Pharma, how corrupt are those guys???
Reactionary? I've seen with my own eyes how MLM schemes work.

First of all, MLM schemes encourage their sellers to target family and friends. This means the seller is leveraging on his relationship (and yes, pity from friends and relatives) to push products. Basically, you should buy this stuff because I'm your brother/sister/cousin/friend/etc.

Some, like Amway, do not actually focus on selling their products, but instead try to sign up as many resellers or "business partners" as they can. In fact, this is one of the key selling points of their program. Build up your network so your downlines will generate passive income for you!

Who doesn't want passive income (read : free money) from such a network, right? So, instead of selling products, they sign up as many folks as possible, telling each one that he can be an independent business owner too and create unlimited passive income. The truth is as more people sign up, the market gets smaller. Eventually, there will not be enough buyers to sustain the market and it all falls down. Sounds like a pyramid scheme, doesn't it?

Worse of all, none of these MLM schemes actually pay their "business partners" anything. Their reason? They are independent business owners. Wow.. And they keep touting "passive income". The reality is most of these MLM participants are working for FREE, with no benefits at all!

In actual fact, most participants LOSE money because they are encouraged to attend seminars and buy "self-help" materials - all of which cost money. Many are also encouraged to buy large amounts of products upfront to maintain certain levels, or get promoted. It's insane. It's like financial suicide!

To call legit retail business a pyramid scheme is IDIOTIC. Don't try to justify a predatory business practice by slinging mud at proper business practices.

When I go to the bank to take a loan or deposit my savings, the bank doesn't try to sign me up as a loan agent and leverage my relationship with others to sell them products.

Similarly, when I go to McDonald's, I buy a burger and I pay them for it. It's a straightforward transaction. No hanky panky. No attempts to sign me up as a McDonald's reseller. I do not have to go beg my aunt to buy some burgers from me because she should support my efforts to be financially independent. Nuts!

If you need to rely on a relationship or pity to push your products, you know what that makes you? A BEGGER, a PANHANDLER, not a business owner.

If you really believe in MLM, well, that's your right, but be honest about what it really is. I have more respect for thieves because at least they do not try to delude themselves that they are robbing people to make the world a better place.

Attempting to cover up what's obviously a predatory business practice will only make you look stupid, especially when you say money filters down in a pyramid scheme. Dude, the money goes UP the pyramid, never down.

PS. Pointing your finger at someone else and saying that they are corrupt doesn't mean you aren't corrupt yourself.

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Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Reactionary? I've seen with my own eyes how MLM schemes work.

First of all, MLM schemes encourage their sellers to target family and friends. This means the seller is leveraging on his relationship (and yes, pity from friends and relatives) to push products. Basically, you should buy this stuff because I'm your brother/sister/cousin/friend/etc.

Some, like Amway, do not actually focus on selling their products, but instead try to sign up as many resellers or "business partners" as they can. In fact, this is one of the key selling points of their program. Build up your network so your downlines will generate passive income for you!

Who doesn't want passive income (read : free money) from such a network, right? So, instead of selling products, they sign up as many folks as possible, telling each one that he can be an independent business owner too and create unlimited passive income. The truth is as more people sign up, the market gets smaller. Eventually, there will not be enough buyers to sustain the market and it all falls down. Sounds like a pyramid scheme, doesn't it?

Worse of all, none of these MLM schemes actually pay their "business partners" anything. Their reason? They are independent business owners. Wow.. And they keep touting "passive income". The reality is most of these MLM participants are working for FREE, with no benefits at all!

In actual fact, most participants LOSE money because they are encouraged to attend seminars and buy "self-help" materials - all of which cost money. Many are also encouraged to buy large amounts of products upfront to maintain certain levels, or get promoted. It's insane. It's like financial suicide!

To call legit retail business a pyramid scheme is IDIOTIC. Don't try to justify a predatory business practice by slinging mud at proper business practices.

When I go to the bank to take a loan or deposit my savings, the bank doesn't try to sign me up as a loan agent and leverage my relationship with others to sell them products.

Similarly, when I go to McDonald's, I buy a burger and I pay them for it. It's a straightforward transaction. No hanky panky. No attempts to sign me up as a McDonald's reseller. I do not have to go beg my aunt to buy some burgers from me because she should support my efforts to be financially independent. Nuts!

If you need to rely on a relationship or pity to push your products, you know what that makes you? A BEGGER, a PANHANDLER, not a business owner.

If you really believe in MLM, well, that's your right, but be honest about what it really is. I have more respect for thieves because at least they do not try to delude themselves that they are robbing people to make the world a better place.

Attempting to cover up what's obviously a predatory business practice will only make you look stupid, especially when you say money filters down in a pyramid scheme. Dude, the money goes UP the pyramid, never down.

PS. Pointing your finger at someone else and saying that they are corrupt doesn't mean you aren't corrupt yourself.
You've obviously got a huge chip on your shoulder as they say. The banking system and all money "services" are pyramid schemes and if you care to look into the practices of the money system you'll see that for yourself. And what about doctors, pushing drugs (often unnecessarily so). Now I'm not saying ban doctors, but the fact remains (again based on objective research), that many drugs themselves are often unproven while being prescribed, plus there are all the side effects.

Some MLM companies may allow their distributors to hassle friends and family, reputable ones do not. Just as a reputable company will not tolerate spammers and the spammer will find themselves kick out.

Again I could quote endless lists of unreputable house builders, plumbers, doctors, teachers, scientists, policemen, etc. Of course there is corruption in every form of business or service, but to single out one type of business practice as illegitimate is just stupid.

It is not the model at fault, that is the point I'm making. Building downlines is just one aspect. If the products are of quality, they will sell and why not introduce them to your family and friends. As I already said, that what we all do anyway, but we don't get paid. That is the only difference between a MLM product and a conventional product. If I enjoy using Walmart toothpaste and say to my sister, "Hey, this is great stuff, you should try it". I don't get paid. If I say, "try this neways toothpaste, it has none of the bad chemicals in it and works so well". I will get paid a commission. So what. That's business. Everyone buys from someone!!!

As for McDonalds, don't even go there. They've had lawsuits, they've had bad press, they pay poorly, etc, etc.

You are just being silly as you are stubbornly against all MLM. What about famers, some of their practices are beyond barbaric. |So where does it end? It ends with your informed choice, not an opinion, not because you want to rant against something - anything. It all comes down to real information. And the fact is the vitamins and other products I get from my Network Marketing company are far superior to those in the drugstore! I pay for quality and I don't pay double what I would if I had to purchase the equivalent elsewhere. It's simple economics.

So do you also want a blanket ban on all forms of advertising, because they are "predatory"? If you are a real doctor, how do you get patients? How do you get the drugs you prescribe? It's all advertising!!!

You have little grasp of that which you think you understand.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You made some good points early on, but the more I read, it shows you are just as typical as a normal MLM salesman.

You too are making sweeping statements. How do you know the vitamins you are getting are FAR SUPERIOR to the drug stores? Based on what?
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 09:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You made some good points early on, but the more I read, it shows you are just as typical as a normal MLM salesman.

You too are making sweeping statements. How do you know the vitamins you are getting are FAR SUPERIOR to the drug stores? Based on what?

Firstly I'm not advertising any products and secondly nor am I promoting our company. Just trying to clarify that MLM is not a scam and that every form of business has its failures and rogues.

I say superior due to the quality of ingredients, and based on the volume of ingredients. Most vitamin tablets in the drugstore are synthetic derivatives, not natural vitamins at all. Many claim to have say 1000mg of vitamin C, but they don't state whether this is natural or sythnetic. Nor do a lot of consumes know that vitamin C is amplified and more useful to the body when combined with other natural chemicals, such as bioflavonoids. So information is essential.

Plus it is the bioactivity of the ingredients that count and the bioavailablity. So it's not much use swallowing a pill if most of that goes straight through your intestines and out the other end more or less intact! It has to be easily broken down in the stomach and absorded. So what is the coating of the pill, what type of capsule, etc?

Again, I'm not saying it's just MLM companies who produce great vitamins or supplements, as most MLM companies actually buy in their product from one of the big three manufacturers. There are many really good products on the market and I have a friend who uses certain products from Baseline Nutritionals as well as some of ours - as ours is cheaper but the same quality and ingredient volume.

Basically it's like all things on sale, you get what you pay for. The more expensive, the better quality and vice versa.

The essential point I'm making is that all business is business and it matters little about the names we give to certain business models, they all operate exactly the same. One person at the top dictates how the money is distributed. With MLM/Network Marketing, everyone has an equal opportunity to make money if they put in the effort and don't try to fool people by making silly claims. We have real products, a real opprtunity to make money. I mean, McDonalds is a franchise, and it takes the owner of the franchise years to recoup their investment. Avon is a type of MLM, it takes maybe $100 to start and you can earn according to your effort via direct selling (yes, even to friends).

We could if we so wished, pick every form of business to pieces. We could ban the lotteries as they may cause misery when your ticket doesn't win. We could ban competition within the market so that only a handful of companies are producing the goods. It's just stupid and restrictive, but most of all, it ignores the one factor - choice.

I have a friend who claims that "all ownership is theft". To him no one has a right to claim ownership as no one can possibly claim authority over land, trees, any resource. Now, I can't argue with that. I used to try, but realized how ridiculous I was being. I was just sticking to an opinion. Of course no one can own anything. But as things stand, we are caught up "in a business system" as he would put it. So my stance is that I'm willing to change (he advocates co-operative living, no bater just everyone living together for one another), but at present I'll just have to make money either via working for someone or setting up a business of my own. I chose that latter and it is working out fine. I provide products which do work and I'm rewarded for that service.

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