The Pirated Software Discussion Thread!

[Adrian Wong]

Originally Posted by wodenus

Are you saying there's no risk ? it's possible to attach a trojan to a downloadable executable, isn't it ?

It's also possible to attach a trojan to JPEG pictures. So, I guess we should all delete our picture albums!

There are many ways to ensure safe downloading. If you really want to do it, trojans and viruses will never be a problem. If you don't, then there will be plenty of excuses like that.

Originally Posted by wodenus

I don't remember posting that. Where did I post it ?

Hehe.. Selective amnesia.

Originally Posted by wodenus

Well they can't make large decreases in price because they need to have enough profit to survive

Surprisingly, even with so much piracy, software companies like Microsoft make so much in their quarterly reports.

[Adrian Wong]

Originally Posted by wodenus

The AT suit has nothing to do with anyone's monopoly.. it's because they have unfair business practices.

Actually, it does. They were using their monopoly in operating systems to influence other companies' buying decisions in other software.

Originally Posted by wodenus

So what you're saying is :

(1) If you're in the US and immensely wealthy, the law doesn't apply to you. This implies that the US legal system is corrupt.

(2) If you make something that is very popular, you're a monopoly, and you need to be prosecuted for it.

You certainly enjoy perverting other people's points, don't you?

Being immensely wealthy means that you can afford the best lawyers. And we all know, that helps a lot when it comes to court cases.

And being immensely wealthy also means that when Microsoft gets fined for their unfair business practices, it's practically a slap on the wrist.

Also, no one said that monopolies must be prosecuted. But monopolies MUST be monitored to ensure they do not abuse their monopolies.

Originally Posted by wodenus

Okay let me re-state my points again.. because it's all gotten out of control :

(1) MS is not a monopoly.

(2) I see no reason why MS (or any other software company) should lower prices. Lower prices will not significantly reduce piracy unless it goes below pirate prices. This will never happen. So lowering prices will not significantly reduce piracy.

(3) Just because they have high prices is not a justification for piracy. Nothing justifies piracy.

Those were the original points before this all went out of control.

1. I'm not anti-Microsoft but Microsoft IS a virtual monopoly when it comes to operating systems. Like it or not, whenever I buy a laptop or branded computer, I do NOT have a choice when it comes to operating systems. It's Microsoft or Microsoft.

2. You may see no reason. But many other people do. So, your minority opinion do not matter much. If you are Microsoft, feel free to do what you want. Other people will too.

3. No one said that high price justifies piracy. If you still don't get it until now, all we are stating is the fact that high price ENCOURAGES piracy. I hope I cleared that up for you now.

[PsYkHoTiK]

Originally Posted by wodenus

So what you're saying is :

(1) If you're in the US and immensely wealthy, the law doesn't apply to you. This implies that the US legal system is corrupt.

(2) If you make something that is very popular, you're a monopoly, and you need to be prosecuted for it.

I wonder how you got those conclusions? They have a MAJOR part of the market share. 97%. Thats dominance.
http://12.129.203.38/cgi-bin/diction...ry&va=dominant

Adrian already took the words outta my mouth.

Originally Posted by wodenus

So what you're saying is :

Okay, let's look at these terms

2 : exclusive possession or control

Does MS have exclusive possession or control of the software industry ? nope. The only thing MS has "exclusive possession or control" of is it's own software.

3 : a commodity controlled by one party

Which commodity does MS have exclusive control of ? software ? hardware ?

2: MS does have control. They make an OS. Ppl have no choice but to comply.

3: Does MS make any hardware? They make an OS for pete's sake. 97% of computer users use them. Companies MUST make their software to be compatible with windows..

As for the rest, Adrian has yet again taken the words from my mouth.

[Chai]

Try playing looking for your favourite games that will work on any OS other than MS! If that's not monopoly, I don't know what is.

Does HL2 have support for other OSes? This applies to almost every games in the market, except a few.

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

Actually, it does. They were using their monopoly in operating systems to influence other companies' buying decisions in other software.

It's not an actual monopoly.. it's just a de-facto standard (which you call "virtual monopoly"). But strictly by definition it's not a monopoly. Okay, suppose I buy into your argument. Just HOW are they using their "monopoly" to "influence other companies' buying decisions in other software" ?

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

You certainly enjoy perverting other people's points, don't you?

It's how I learn stuff. And how other people learn stuff too. It's all good. For instance, you just learned that Macintosh is an Apple hardware component. And the Mac OS doesn't run on x86 machines

Other than that. it's good mental exercise it's also amazing to see some people totally blow up and start cursing you and calling you names

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

Being immensely wealthy means that you can afford the best lawyers. And we all know, that helps a lot when it comes to court cases.

What would happen if (for instance) a law firm were so good almost everyone went to them for legal advice ? would you consider them a monopoly then ?

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

And being immensely wealthy also means that when Microsoft gets fined for their unfair business practices, it's practically a slap on the wrist.

Is there ever a business practice that is "unfair" ? unfair according to whose opinion ? what is "unfair" to you might be very fair to me can you seriously say you're going to sue me (even though I've not broken any laws) because you think I'm unfair ? since when has a competitive advantage been unfair ?

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

Also, no one said that monopolies must be prosecuted. But monopolies MUST be monitored to ensure they do not abuse their monopolies.

I wish you wouldn't call them monopolies. De-facto standards are not monopolies. What you call "abuse of monopoly" I call "leverage". Their position as a de-factor standard gives them some leverage with some companies. Just as our position gives us some leverage with some companies. Being able to influence people or companies do to things is not a bad thing -- I use it, you used it. How can you say companies must be censured for using their influence when you tacitly agree to influence peddling yourself ? you use it, I use it, how can you be against it ?

(PS. If you really don't know what I mean PM me. )

1. I'm not anti-Microsoft but Microsoft IS a virtual monopoly when it comes to operating systems. Like it or not, whenever I buy a laptop or branded computer, I do NOT have a choice when it comes to operating systems. It's Microsoft or Microsoft.

You really DO have a choice. Come to KL, I'll show you a lot of dealers that can sell you a PC or laptop without an OS. Or with RH or whatever, your choice. Sorry but this point is invalid.

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

2. You may see no reason. But many other people do. So, your minority opinion do not matter much. If you are Microsoft, feel free to do what you want. Other people will too.

Fair enough, you do what you want, other people do what they want. So long as they don't break the law, everyone is happy, yes ?

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

3. No one said that high price justifies piracy. If you still don't get it until now, all we are stating is the fact that high price ENCOURAGES piracy. I hope I cleared that up for you now.

I don't think it does. I think a _perception_ of high price encourages piracy. Regardless of whether the price is actually high, if people _think_ the price is high they will indulge in piracy. It doesn't matter if the company is just making $1 per sale, if they think it's still high they will copy it. In other words, they use a possibly wrong perception as justification for piracy. People have an impression of how much a particular software _should_ cost, beyond which they will declare it "high" and copy it. This impression is sometimes not based on reality at all. I think people think simple to use = simple to build because it's that way in many other industries. But in the software industry, sometimes the simpler it is to use, the harder it is to build. They think simple software must be cheap to build, and complicated software expensive. But in actual fact, it's sometimes the other way around. The more intuitive you want to make a particular program, the more you have to work at it. I think this is where the misunderstanding is.

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

It's also possible to attach a trojan to JPEG pictures. So, I guess we should all delete our picture albums!

Not really. There are other picture formats you know. All JPEG pix are filtered over here. Not missing a whole lot either

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

There are many ways to ensure safe downloading. If you really want to do it, trojans and viruses will never be a problem. If you don't, then there will be plenty of excuses like that.

Never say never. If they weren't a problem people wouldn't have built whole companies based on trojan hunting and cleaning. Malware will always be a problem, because you never know what's in that executable file that you're running. And cleaners aren't foolproof.

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

Surprisingly, even with so much piracy, software companies like Microsoft make so much in their quarterly reports.

What's your point ?

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Chai

Try playing looking for your favourite games that will work on any OS other than MS! If that's not monopoly, I don't know what is.

Does HL2 have support for other OSes? This applies to almost every games in the market, except a few.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's MS' fault if game companies choose not to support any other OS.

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

I wonder how you got those conclusions? They have a MAJOR part of the market share. 97%. Thats dominance.

Correct. That is dominance. And dominance is not monopoly as long as you do not have 100% you are not a monopoly.

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

2: MS does have control. They make an OS. Ppl have no choice but to comply.

Sorry, to comply to what ?

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

3: Does MS make any hardware? They make an OS for pete's sake. 97% of computer users use them. Companies MUST make their software to be compatible with windows..

Actually, they DO make hardware. Check out http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/default.mspx see this is why I like debating.. win or lose, you learn something

They MUST make software compatible ? who holds a gun to their heads ?

[Maximus_Detritus]

@PsY: I'd have to agree with you there. Anyone with half a brain would be able to see that our dear wodenus would never admit to the shortcomings within his own 'arguments' and 'factual' presentation of points.

Wait, half-a-brain? Isn't that an opinion?? Conjecture? Subjective/objective analysis of the situation?? The sheer self-inflicted blindness you have imposed upon yourself, wodenus, is bordering on disbelief. Actually, it has crossed the realms of disbelief, and I can only say we are witnessing the disintegration of a poorly supported and ill-constructed 'argument' (if you can even call it that) from a self-righteous self-trumpeting vainglorious insufferable I-pretend-I-know-it-all.

If you have a shred of dignity, wodenus, I'd suggest you stop your fannying about, and admit your own argument's shortcomings and stop lying to yourself about the 'truth' you so sordidly misrepresent. That way, we could all give some credence to what you're TRYING to say.

Your 'points', if I can call them that, are for lack of a better word, not really points. You meander and deviate and subvert the meanings of your own arguments to the point that nobody really knows, or wants to care, what your case is anymore. From software piracy, it has gone on to DVDs, Books, P2P and INKJET costs!

What ppl merely use as examples, you take as a license to diverge from the main issue at hand. What buffoonery is that? You are like Nero. Such a misplaced belief in your own self-righteousness that you still fiddle around with semantics and irrelevance as your argument, whatever it is, or could have possibly been (is that opinion, conjecture? heck no, it's fact), disintegrates before your own eyes.

Or whatever blinkered shades you use to shield yourself from the gnawing truth that you are really, nothing more than a shallow twat who knows nothing more than to talk back and try to sound smart at it.

How so very sad.

[wodenus]

IMHO, I'm only discussing this for the sake of discussion. None of us here have any influence in the making any changes. So, why bother?

Because it's fun and educational.

Who wins the discussion? Who cares. Time will tell.

Who cares who wins ? the object of a debate is to expose weaknesses. If you stress-test something (like a mind) you can see where it cracks. Then you can fix it So far as I can see, a lot of people learned something from this debate