The Pirated Software Discussion Thread!

[Papercut]

Originally Posted by wodenus

DYKT : it takes years (and boatloads of cash) to complete a major software project ? they're not charging for bits on a CD, they're charging for the time, skill and effort -- the CD and the duplication are almost free

There's a huge difference between charging prices to recover your production costs such as R&D, and charging high prices just because you know that people will continue to buy your product. Refer to my previous post about inelastic demand. The fact is that MS is abusing its monopoly position and charging high prices, hence buying pirated software is a very logical solution to the problem.

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Papercut

But how are you going to use a computer that doesn't have an OS? It brings us back to the point that all (or most) mainstream users need to purchase Windows because the alternatives like Linux are not feasible or user-friendly enough at this point in time.

Well then either learn how to use it, or don't use a PC RM400K cars are so un-userfriendly people have to go to schools to learn how to drive them, but no one complains about _that_

[Papercut]

Originally Posted by wodenus

DYKT : none of this answers the question ? if you're against people photocopying the book for non-business purposes, then why are you proposing that software should be free for non-business purposes ?

Ok, then look at this from a simple legal perspective. Photocopying the book amounts to unauthorised duplication of the material -> copyright infringement. If you let someone use your software for free, that's classified as a free public licence.

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Papercut

There's a huge difference between charging prices to recover your production costs such as R&D, and charging high prices just because you know that people will continue to buy your product. Refer to my previous post about inelastic demand. The fact is that MS is abusing its monopoly position and charging high prices, hence buying pirated software is a very logical solution to the problem.

IINM SCO was charging US$15K per license for XENIX at one time. Windows is pretty underpriced for what it does

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Papercut

Ok, then look at this from a simple legal perspective. Photocopying the book amounts to unauthorised duplication of the material -> copyright infringement. If you let someone use your software for free, that's classified as a free public licence.

Anyone can use the software for free.. as long as it's not duplicated, no one cares how many users use that one copy

[Papercut]

Mainstream users, wodenus. MAINSTREAM. Don't bring up specialist operating systems like Xenix because it's completely irrelevant to almost everyone. And think about people who are less computer-savvy, people who only do basic stuff like e-mail, web browsing and word processing. Do you honestly expect them to be able to install and use Linux by themselves? Most of them have probably never even heard of Linux!

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

DYKT : I think the problem people have with software prices is not so much they are so expensive, it's because there is little material cost.

You're probably right. It's hard to make people see the hidden costs

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

DYKT : It's easier to calculate the cost of a car but not software? How do you calculate the value of a software? Based on the amount of work done? The ingenuity of the software? Or its rarity? What about its usefulness to the user?

You can't much. So you just stick a price on it, and people can decide whether they wanna buy it or not but kjust because they can't afford it doesn't mean they should copy it

Originally Posted by Adrian Wong

On the other hand.. Once you create a piece of software, replicating it ad nauseum cost almost nothing thereafter. Therefore, should the company still charge exhorbitant amounts of money for nothing more than bits on a CD/DVD? See above.

It's not just bits.. See below.

[Adrian Wong]

Originally Posted by wodenus

DYKT : it takes years (and boatloads of cash) to complete a major software project ? they're not charging for bits on a CD, they're charging for the time, skill and effort -- the CD and the duplication are almost free

Umm.. I'm merely stating how the consumer perceives the software industry. To them, it's just a cheap CD. Cost price less than RM 0.50 per CD. Why should they pay more?

I'm not agreeing with their perception. I'm just stating the obvious, if no one has noticed that yet.

[Adrian Wong]

Originally Posted by wodenus

DYKT : none of this answers the question ? if you're against people photocopying the book for non-business purposes, then why are you proposing that software should be free for non-business purposes ?

Ahh.. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I never said photocopy is illegal. I support fair and equitable use of copyrighted material.

If you wish to photocopy the book because you cannot afford it, no one can stop you. But if you make copies of the book to sell to others, then that's wrong.

BTW, I am not proposing free software for non-commercial purposes. I'm merely proposing free software for students or retirees. The point is if you can't work, how can you be expected to pay for software?

Since the cost of developing software is a one-time issue (for each version), free copies of software for students and retirees will not cost the company anything. In fact, it will encourage more people to use their software, which may influence buying patterns of companies.

[wodenus]

Originally Posted by Papercut

Mainstream users, wodenus. MAINSTREAM. Don't bring up specialist operating systems like Xenix because it's completely irrelevant to almost everyone. And think about people who are less computer-savvy, people who only do basic stuff like e-mail, web browsing and word processing. Do you honestly expect them to be able to install and use Linux by themselves? Most of them have probably never even heard of Linux!

In terms of functionality, Xenix is more or less as functional as Windows. Back when *nix was popular, XENIX _was_ mainstream E-mail, web browsing etc. are not "basic stuff" from the standpoint of the operating system.. it is way simpler to code an OS without a GUI.. it's a lot more difficult to code an OS that's intuitive and "makes sense". It's only "basic stuff" because it's been made easy. It's not easy to make things easy for humans to use so there's a huge cost involved in that.. the process of humanizing the OS. There's always been a tradeoff between cost and convenience. Less money = more trouble. I mean, you can drive, or take a cab, or take a bus. No one says, cabs should be cheaper because taking a bus is hard.