Any Linux users here?

[peaz]

I'm starting to use Linux more these days. Using Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 right now on a VMWare on my work Thinkpad. It's kinda cool actually once you get the hang of it, haha. I can't believe me saying this myself. But the recent Windows clamp downs on Windows Updates and etc is just pissing me off.

Anyways. Downloading Fedora as well and I hope to be able to use it on my own home machine, again on a VMWare for the moment until I can get another machine for my Windows work (probably a new laptop) or a new desktop. Then I can boot up a 100% linux machine.

So... any linux users here so that I can ask a few things? Like which build do you like best? differences etc? I tried Ubuntu but didn't really like it. Not sure why.. perhaps I will try it out again.

I've also tried Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and like it better than SLED. However, I can't get myself a copy of RHEL at the moment. Perhaps I can try to look into IBM's internal repository of software... Hmmm...

Bleh

Okok... fire away some tips... what to do where to look for stuff. Like.. any GAIM alternative? I don't like the fact that GAIM uses big fonts and big icons. And I didn't see any way to resize anything in the options.

Oh, and does different distros = different avaibility of software packages? Do i always need to get the source files and compile my own executables? Is there a nice graphical based tool for basic stuff like FTP and so on? Yes I know I can use the console based commands. But sometimes, managing my up/downloads using a graphical tool does help... time management vs cool-factor....

And I don't really like GIMP too. any other alternatives?

[djspinnet]

Originally Posted by peaz

I'm starting to use Linux more these days. Using Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 right now on a VMWare on my work Thinkpad. It's kinda cool actually once you get the hang of it, haha. I can't believe me saying this myself. But the recent Windows clamp downs on Windows Updates and etc is just pissing me off.

Welcome to the brethren! But.....

Originally Posted by peaz

Anyways. Downloading Fedora as well and I hope to be able to use it on my own home machine

Step 1: Dump Fedora. It's too overrated and it's a bloat you'll end up getting frustrated over.

Originally Posted by peaz

So... any linux users here so that I can ask a few things? Like which build do you like best? differences etc? I tried Ubuntu but didn't really like it. Not sure why.. perhaps I will try it out again.

Which build.. ooh, wrong terminology.. you mean which distro? I trust you should know what 'build' really means, right?

Originally Posted by peaz

I've also tried Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and like it better than SLED.

I have RHEL4. But like I said, RedHat/Fedora is too overrated ler. I used to use a very old version of Mandrake 9.2 (Mandrake 10 started to suck big time) and then I went over to Ubuntu. And then I got meself freebsd sitting inside the Mac OS X

It's good for starters but you don't want it sitting inside your machine for longer than 6 months.

Originally Posted by peaz

Okok... fire away some tips... what to do where to look for stuff. Like.. any GAIM alternative? I don't like the fact that GAIM uses big fonts and big icons. And I didn't see any way to resize anything in the options.

Skin your gaim lor.. or use Kopete and skin your Kopete. It's highly skinnable.. in fact, anything on linux is easily skinnable, and there's tons of skins available online. I managed to skin my antiquated Mandrake 9.2 to look like Mac OS X (click). Took me 10 minutes max to do it.

Originally Posted by peaz

Do i always need to get the source files and compile my own executables? Is there a nice graphical based tool for basic stuff like FTP and so on?

Since you said you're using Suse right now, it's inside YAST. And if it's Red Hat/Fedora/Mandrake, it's under RPM management. Even on some Linux/UNIXes without X/KDE/GNOME also, all it takes to install a package is a single line on the command like
'apt-get install somepackage' or in freebsd, go to the ports collection, type make install and then let it run in the background while you go do your work. By the time you finish your work, your package would have been installed all nice fine and dandy. One line only. Quicker than open this window, navigate to this place, search for the package, click on the install package button.. *so slow and troublesome*. You say time management? Console is time management

[fyire]

Originally Posted by peaz

I'm starting to use Linux more these days. Using Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 right now on a VMWare on my work Thinkpad. It's kinda cool actually once you get the hang of it, haha. I can't believe me saying this myself. But the recent Windows clamp downs on Windows Updates and etc is just pissing me off.

Welcome to the Dark Side!!! MWAahahahahaahahahahhahahahahhahaahaahahahahhahaha hahhaha ahaahahahahhahahahahhahaahaahahahahhahahahahhahaah aahahahahhahahahahhaha ahaahahahahhahahahahhahaahaahahahahhahahahahhahaah aahahahahhahahahahhahaahaahahahahhahahahahhaha ahaahahahahhahahahahhahaahaahahahahhahahahahhahaah aahahahahhahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by peaz

Anyways. Downloading Fedora as well and I hope to be able to use it on my own home machine, again on a VMWare for the moment until I can get another machine for my Windows work (probably a new laptop) or a new desktop. Then I can boot up a 100% linux machine.

So... any linux users here so that I can ask a few things? Like which build do you like best? differences etc? I tried Ubuntu but didn't really like it. Not sure why.. perhaps I will try it out again.

I've also tried Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and like it better than SLED. However, I can't get myself a copy of RHEL at the moment. Perhaps I can try to look into IBM's internal repository of software... Hmmm...

Well, the reason why I tend to avoid Redhat or SuSE these days (despite being a Novell partner) is due to the RPMs. The debian APT had been a better system than RPMs for ages (and I had years of problems with RPMs too).

- RPMs for Redhat may not work on SuSE, and vice versa
- RPMs for a particular version of Redhat may not work for another version of Redhat (same for SuSE as well)
- RPM updates dont always bring you to the latest version, only bugfixes for the same version installed

Which is why I tend to alternate between Ubuntu and FreeBSD these days.

Originally Posted by peaz

Bleh

Okok... fire away some tips... what to do where to look for stuff. Like.. any GAIM alternative? I don't like the fact that GAIM uses big fonts and big icons. And I didn't see any way to resize anything in the options.

Oh, and does different distros = different avaibility of software packages? Do i always need to get the source files and compile my own executables? Is there a nice graphical based tool for basic stuff like FTP and so on? Yes I know I can use the console based commands. But sometimes, managing my up/downloads using a graphical tool does help... time management vs cool-factor....

And I don't really like GIMP too. any other alternatives?

Basically, my choice is due to the available packages default to the distribution. Of the different distributions that i've seen, Ubuntu has got the highest number available by default, and there are also 3rd party repositories available in addition to the actual ones. While its true that any packages can be just compiled from source where not available in the default .DEB or .RPM, a recompilation from source means manual updates. If its installed from the repository, then its just a single command on the command line to update everything. And that is where the time saving really comes in.

Ubuntu has got a pretty nice package browser, that you can use to pick or hunt down those packages that you want or are looking for.

[ZuePhok]

me! me!. suse sepuluh.

but my sound card doesn't work as creative doesn't want to open its x-fi architecture to the public yet. gotta wait till next year

[peaz]

Although I wish I could, i can't replace Linux with Windows yet. So this move is more to familiarise myself with Linux so that I'll be ready when the day comes and also to know a bit more since it's similar to UNIX and i might have to work on the AIX platform sometimes.

back to topic, Hmm ok. i have to remember this.. distro distro. LOL

anyways. Looks like I've to go back and take a look at Ubuntu again. Blah. If only Linux can finally agree on a single package format... that will make life so much easier. As for recompiling etc, yes techies can do it. But general consumers? Hahhahahaha

No wonder call centres are starting to implement linux, simply becuase it's not easy to install MSN or Yahoo Messenger. hahahah!

Yast! sucks actually.. it's stupid and close to useless seriously. As for RHEL's RPM manager ... well, it works but only becuase RHEL is so strict with it's RPMs in the first place. Not many things get into RHEL distro compared to Fedora. Ah... looks like I have to look into Ubuntu again from this angle. Ubuntu's package browser does look extremely comprehensive.

As for the tip on Gaim, well that's what I'm asking for la. I've yet to use Gaim and seriously, it's sad that the likes of Miranda have not yet surfaced in the Linux side. LOL.

Phok... u can 'tan ku ku' for that driver... LOL.

[djspinnet]

Originally Posted by peaz

Looks like I've to go back and take a look at Ubuntu again. Blah. If only Linux can finally agree on a single package format... that will make life so much easier. As for recompiling etc, yes techies can do it. But general consumers? Hahhahahaha

No wonder call centres are starting to implement linux, simply becuase it's not easy to install MSN or Yahoo Messenger. hahahah!

Actually most consumer linux have all the consumer software installed in it, and most consumers don't bother keeping up with udpates. Even if they do they just stick to their distro's method of package management.

And fyi in almost any basic install of linux (unless you specifically unchecked the package during install) - they come with either gaim or kopete or both installed, both of which are multi protocol clients. don't even need to install anything

Originally Posted by peaz

Yast! sucks actually.. it's stupid and close to useless seriously. As for RHEL's RPM manager ... well, it works but only becuase RHEL is so strict with it's RPMs in the first place. Not many things get into RHEL distro compared to Fedora. Ah... looks like I have to look into Ubuntu again from this angle. Ubuntu's package browser does look extremely comprehensive.

Yea, I agree, yast sucks. After some time of letting my admins use yast the command line version on the server last time, I banned them from ever touching it again because for some reason after using yast, it'll mess up the perl permissions and I have to keep setting the perms back. But the fundamental argument here is that any system control tool like yast - whether you like it or not depends on the person. Many friends of mine who toyed with linux loved yast simply because they're terrified of the command line.

But like you said above, techies can do it, so if you consider yourself techie, just dump yast and all and plunge into the command line There's always man to help you Plus, should you need to work on the AIXes in IBM you'll have to spend most if not all the time on the command line. So think of this as 'practice' before getting thrown into the fire

You have to remember also, RHEL's target market and objectives and Fedora's are different, Fedora = consumer/general public = more junk.

[fyire]

Originally Posted by peaz

Although I wish I could, i can't replace Linux with Windows yet. So this move is more to familiarise myself with Linux so that I'll be ready when the day comes and also to know a bit more since it's similar to UNIX and i might have to work on the AIX platform sometimes.

back to topic, Hmm ok. i have to remember this.. distro distro. LOL

Hmm.. AIX.. somehow, the image of jackboots comes to mind Kinda an old joke lar, the Sys V vs BSD thingy.

Originally Posted by peaz

anyways. Looks like I've to go back and take a look at Ubuntu again. Blah. If only Linux can finally agree on a single package format... that will make life so much easier. As for recompiling etc, yes techies can do it. But general consumers? Hahhahahaha

No wonder call centres are starting to implement linux, simply becuase it's not easy to install MSN or Yahoo Messenger. hahahah!

Recompiling from source isnt that bad actually, it just depends on the system that you're using. The FreeBSD ports system is kinda like a hybrid between source and package. U select the port that you want to put in, and have the choice of either using the package or the source (the source install is often of a newer version). None of the usual untar, configure, install, blah stuff when installing something from source, as the ports management system handles it all for you, even the dependancies too.

Same goes for the Fink system that's designed for Mac OS X too. Choice of package install or source install, and all done from the UI, or the command prompt with just a single click, or command.

Originally Posted by peaz

Yast! sucks actually.. it's stupid and close to useless seriously. As for RHEL's RPM manager ... well, it works but only becuase RHEL is so strict with it's RPMs in the first place. Not many things get into RHEL distro compared to Fedora. Ah... looks like I have to look into Ubuntu again from this angle. Ubuntu's package browser does look extremely comprehensive.

As for the tip on Gaim, well that's what I'm asking for la. I've yet to use Gaim and seriously, it's sad that the likes of Miranda have not yet surfaced in the Linux side. LOL.

Phok... u can 'tan ku ku' for that driver... LOL.

One big surprise that came to me actually. Oracle actually installs easier on Ubuntu than on SuSE or Redhat. In fact, Oracle installs on Ubuntu without any problems at all, despite having to trick the oracle installer into thinking that Ubuntu is Redhat.

[hyper_raider]

Peaz: dont use the package browser...use apt-cache search <package name> thats the best option for me at least

[peaz]

Originally Posted by fyire

Recompiling from source isnt that bad actually, it just depends on the system that you're using. The FreeBSD ports system is kinda like a hybrid between source and package. U select the port that you want to put in, and have the choice of either using the package or the source (the source install is often of a newer version). None of the usual untar, configure, install, blah stuff when installing something from source, as the ports management system handles it all for you, even the dependancies too.

Same goes for the Fink system that's designed for Mac OS X too. Choice of package install or source install, and all done from the UI, or the command prompt with just a single click, or command.

Well I guess I'll just need to go back to old school and start compiling stuff as I like. LOL Oh no, i'm not complaining about compiling. Just that.. well, if linux really want to go mainstream.. . wouldn't they have already agreed on a system that's common and compatible among all distros?

Originally Posted by fyire

One big surprise that came to me actually. Oracle actually installs easier on Ubuntu than on SuSE or Redhat. In fact, Oracle installs on Ubuntu without any problems at all, despite having to trick the oracle installer into thinking that Ubuntu is Redhat.

Seriously? LOL. So much for RHEL being Oracle certified at Day-0. should have told me earlier so that I can shove this piece of info to the Red Hat guy that came over the other day. Damn arrogant man these topi merah (Red Hat in Malay.. literally) people. They thing Red Hat is the best thing in the world.. even better than oxygen.

[peaz]

Originally Posted by hyper_raider

Peaz: dont use the package browser...use apt-cache search <package name> thats the best option for me at least

I think G.O.O.G.L.E may sometimes be better. Just need to download the source and compile it i suppose.