ATI 4850 benchmark

[Chai]

Originally Posted by Mac Daddy

Then why are you?

Since you have a lot of trouble trying to understand me, I make it really simple for you. As long as it's stable, you shouldn't need to care about temperature.

Why am I? Simple. That's because I always run my CPU way above the recommended clockspeed. Hence the rated temperature tolerance do not apply to me anymore.

[Mac Daddy]

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

QFT.

You might want to hit the books again there guy....

That is exactly why I mentioned it and why bipolar junctions aren't used in modern dies. A Darlington pair also has a high input impedance but since it is a bipolar device it doesn't have a negative temperature co-efficient. This means that when the junction temperature increases the impedance also decreases and leaves the junction up for a condition known as thermal runaway.

What books do I need to hit again?

[Mac Daddy]

Originally Posted by Max_87

LMAO you don't get it do you?

1. 4870 has a higher TDP than 4850, so naturally it runs hotter, and the fan might be running at very low speed.
2. but the cooler on 4870 is designed to keep the temperature at maximum 82C, as quoted from the article "temperatures never rose above 82C since the fan would immediately spin up."
3. 4850's cooler is different and it doesn't have to keep the chip running at 82C or below.
4. Why? because the 4850 has different temperature tolerance, when operating at different speed/voltage, despite both 4850/4870 are using the same RV770 core.

Is no.2 and 3 sooo difficult to understand? LMAO

This quote suits you perfectly:

You seem to miss the whole point the testing procedure used for temperatures on that article are inaccurate you more or less said so yourself. What was posted there was raw data which Delta T isn't. Delta T is a analysis of raw data not collection of the data itself. I will be getting into more of that in my next review.

A question ... when you overclock your video card to high and experience artifacts what physical property ultimately causes them?

[Mac Daddy]

Originally Posted by Chai

Since you have a lot of trouble trying to understand me, I make it really simple for you. As long as it's stable, you shouldn't need to care about temperature.

Why am I? Simple. That's because I always run my CPU way above the recommended clockspeed. Hence the rated temperature tolerance do not apply to me anymore.

I understand your point and that's why I use coolers as well but I think your missing my point. Frequency also causes the junctions to heat as well as voltage and current. My point is simply that no semiconductor will operate efficiently at higher than its rated temp. As long as proper cooling is used we can regulate this somewhat while overclocking and overvolting.. Are we just saying the same thing?

[Max_87]

Originally Posted by Mac Daddy

You seem to miss the whole point the testing procedure used for temperatures on that article are inaccurate you more or less said so yourself. What was posted there was raw data which Delta T isn't. Delta T is a analysis of raw data not collection of the data itself. I will be getting into more of that in my next review.

A question ... when you overclock your video card to high and experience artifacts what physical property ultimately causes them?

Stop twisting what I'm saying. You were the one who keep questioning why 4870 has lower load temperature than 4850, and I gave you the most possible answer.

Enough is enough. All you do is evading your own mistakes and twisting around what we said. Time for the LULZ.

Read my post and view the results again and your response. IF the 4870 has a dual slot cooler and the 4850 doesn't why is the idle temp on the 4870 higher? And then read carefully again and tell me why the 4870 temp is lower under load?

Ok, you were questioning WHY THE HELL 4870 has lower temp under load. The most possible answer? The cooler on 4870 is made to keep the temperature below 83C, but the 4850's cooler is not. You did not read the article properly yourself! but that's fine.

But then you reply:

You seem to miss the whole point the testing procedure used for temperatures on that article are inaccurate you more or less said so yourself. What was posted there was raw data which Delta T isn't. Delta T is a analysis of raw data not collection of the data itself.

Oh, so NOW you realized that you did not read the article properly, you did an AWESOME high speed 90 degree cornering said that the article has inaccurate results because it's not Delta T blabla. If you agreed with what we said about Delta T, then you should know that the temperatures are meaningless and shouldn't be taken too seriously. RIGHT?

and yet WHY, WHY were you STILL questioning 4870 has lower load temps than 4850? Who was the one that missed the point?

I take the results as a grain of salt because the readings is not in delta T. You were the one who take the "temperatures" too seriously.

PS. Oh and what about the MOSFET not being able to operate efficiently at 80C? LMAO!

[Max_87]

Originally Posted by Mac Daddy

That is exactly why I mentioned it and why bipolar junctions aren't used in modern dies. A Darlington pair also has a high input impedance but since it is a bipolar device it doesn't have a negative temperature co-efficient. This means that when the junction temperature increases the impedance also decreases and leaves the junction up for a condition known as thermal runaway.

What books do I need to hit again?

I thought you and PsYkHoTiK were supposed to be talking about MOSFETs?

You were the one who said MOSFET has negative temperature co-efficient.

Did you know a MOSFET uses a negative temperature co-efficient?

and then you suddenly said:

Under no circumstances with any technology using semiconductors especially MOSFET technology will perform efficiently at temperatures like 80C. You will lose throughput and conductivity. Maybe I am old school but that is how I feel.

Aren't you contradicting yourself?

then you went on and said:

That is exactly why I mentioned it and why bipolar junctions aren't used in modern dies.

So this is why you were contradicting yourself? That's really awesome

[PsYkHoTiK]

lol.

He can create a thread on MOSFETs if he wants (I really have no intrest in partaking a discussion that goes loopy).

Let's stick on topic on the cards.

I personally, am considering this card (and its ~200w idling glory). It should go well with my block and various chipsinks to cool everything down.

[Max_87]

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

lol.

He can create a thread on MOSFETs if he wants (I really have no intrest in partaking a discussion that goes loopy).

Let's stick on topic on the cards.

I personally, am considering this card (and its ~200w idling glory). It should go well with my block and various chipsinks to cool everything down.

Yup If you are not happy with the operating temperature, just upgrade the cooling! Otherwise it runs just fine with the stock cooler as it is designed to keep the operating temperature below the threshold. Unless you are overclocking it of course.

[Mac Daddy]

Well lets make one last post on this thread for all our up and coming Electronics experts

Bipolar semiconductors have a positive temperature co-efficient while MOSFET's have a negative temperature co-efficient. So in essence by forcing a "FET" based semiconductor to higher temperatures you are basically going against its basic properties in Physics. So it will never be completely stable under those conditions.

Do we understand semiconductors in general now?

Max on artifacts it is HEAT as that is the basis for 99.9 percent of semiconductor failures no matter what parameter caused it. Try googling that

Well besides petty insults and people who need real life experience on more than a few issues lets get back on topic. I do believe Goldfries picked up a 4850 lets see if he records temperatures properly using manual fan settings

[Chai]

Originally Posted by Mac Daddy

I understand your point and that's why I use coolers as well but I think your missing my point. Frequency also causes the junctions to heat as well as voltage and current. My point is simply that no semiconductor will operate efficiently at higher than its rated temp. As long as proper cooling is used we can regulate this somewhat while overclocking and overvolting.. Are we just saying the same thing?

Yes, correct. But do you know what is the max rated temperature in the first place??? The answer is no! Even I do not know.

But what I do know is back on 6800 Ultra, on the Geforce control panel, the Max Temp before throttling was about 100+C. If they allow the card to run up to 100+C, it means the max rated temp is even higher than that. I'm not saying that ATI will have the same max operating temperature, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar.