ATI 4850 benchmark

[Chai]

Originally Posted by miahman

i was searching for crossfire compatible GPU. and i came across a graphic card which is DDR3 and DDR5.

i know DDR3 can be used with DDR3 mobo. but in order to use its DDR5 speed do we need to wait for new DDR5 mobo's or is there another way to use it?

Graphics card RAM has got nothing to do with motherboard RAM.

I can even use a DDR motherboard with DDR5 graphics card, provided both are using AGP or PCIe.

[Unixlord]

GDDR3 != DDR3 and even if they were, they are as Chai noted irrelevant of eachother.

[Mac Daddy]

Originally Posted by empire23

I'm not going to say who's right and who's wrong, but i'll try to clear the air regarding MOSFET topology and ideals. The are a few misconceptions flying around so i'll correct them.

1. There's no set definition for negative and positive thermal coefficient. The words themselves don't matter unless they're put in a useful context. Engineers throw around these phrases with charts included, so one has to switch their definition to meet the situation. It's just one of those phrases that changes meaning depending on the person using it.

AMB.org run by Ti-Kan lists it as negative, IOR as positive, Diodes Inc as negative and so on. My advice is to see what the words reflect above all. EE people aren't into semantics, that's why we keep using words depending on like and need.

Even my Modern Electronic Communications textbook by Gary M Miller and Beasly has alot of definitions that my cranky old lecturer Bruce Varnes defines as ;

a) Hogwash
b) Pure Incompetence
c) Miller was educated with a different system than what the world uses.


2. BJTs are the ones that suffer from thermal runaway, as current to current devices as they pass current, it heats the BJT up, and thus the BJT passes even more current which leads to even more heating. This is thermal runaway in the purest sense.

3. MOSFET are the opposite, as voltage to current devices, they take up extremely low levels of gate drive current, in the nano amp region. As MOSFET heat up due to current travelling via the drain and source, their on resistance increases instead, limiting current flow. This acts as a varistor, and like a varistor, it WILL heat up, but it WILL NOT pass more current.

4. Regarding Clocking FETs higher and higher, realize why a boost of say (analogy) 10 percent voltage will net you 10 percent clock gain and as you go higher to 20 percent, you'll only get a say 15 percent improvement instead of 20? It's because MOSFET don't scale linearly after they exceed their efficient operating zones. You get a compressive function of gain versus voltage. There's only so many volts you can push through a FET till that poor depletion layer breaks from the voltage on the gate.

5. Stability in a practical sense is defined by the ability of a device to deliver results within it's specified boundaries. Stability also can be defined as a suitable MTBF. Which we don't know. Of course, stable short term doesn't mean much, as we all know thermal stress can not only stress a part electrically, but also physically, flexing pads, joint stress and other problems manifest themselves in the long term.

An EE/CE/SE's job is to make sure that the device is long in the bin before these effects start to show. Basically, when dealing with high power devices, actually, most devices, heat is the biggest issue of design.

6. Different Processes give different temperature tolerance, different designs also give different power outputs, complimentary logic cells are heat blasters IIRC. Generally we're taught here to make sure MOSFET don't hit the 70+ region for stability, IIRC an LYN forumer Sniper on the Roof who's an industry insider says that too. BUT one can get away with going higher by generally

- Giving long term reliability the ass end.

MOSFETs can run for a gajillion years at lower temps without the threat of high voltage, but people replace their GCs in probably 3 years, so, one makes a compormise in the search for high clock speed and ass beating performance level.

- "Assume" perfect operating spec.

A favourite excuse everyone in this business plays, one assumes everyone lives in the Siberian wastes and then figures that people in hot countries are too poor to buy their stuff. It depends from manufacturer to manufacturer, and it depends on their desperation lol.

ATi during their X1800 days, knowing that Nvidia had em in a pinch tended to stretch their defition of "reliable operating region", Nvidia did the same with their 5XXX series of cards.

Just givin my 2 cents, not supporting anyone. Just here to tell ye what i know.

Nice post Empire and nice to see a post lacking google links

That's really all I have to say !!

(If we pay more attention to electronics basics Psyk might have found out the reason he is burning up that OCZ Reaper ram. Gen and I talked about it in theory before I joined this forum and bought mine but will check again and post back to the appropriate thread)

Back on topic we go and still not buying a 4870

[Max_87]

I remember someone kept insisting that MOSFETs have negative temperature co-efficient What an awesome U-turn I haven't seen anything like this before.

Luckily I asked empire23 here to clarify stuffs on the temperature co-efficient of MOSFET. Someone doesn't even know what he himself was talking about.

Oh, nice post btw Mac Daddy

[PsYkHoTiK]

Yeah. Andy Talamantez has no idea coz you are the expert. He isn't... (He's a nice guy btw and we traded a lot of emails back and fourth over the issue trying out new things) and eventually it was due to a bad stick (failed memtest - every hardware I have gets put through some rigorous testing)...

How can you talk when you don't even know what settings I ran it on (stop with the fallacies, assumptions, and inconsistencies already)?

Micron D9s die pretty easy at all sorts of voltages (I so happened to run mine at stock). Well documented. Try googling (if anything, it gives you a base - Googling it is better than just talking in circles and banter on pure speculation).

[Mac Daddy]

Originally Posted by Max_87

I remember someone kept insisting that MOSFETs have negative temperature co-efficient What an awesome U-turn I haven't seen anything like this before.

Luckily I asked empire23 here to clarify stuffs on the temperature co-efficient of MOSFET. Someone doesn't even know what he himself was talking about.

Oh, nice post btw Mac Daddy

There is no U-Turn Max I just got tired of debating you guys check you facts a little more clearly I doubt the technology has changed that drastically in 20 years but glad someone was here to "clarify stuffs"

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

Yeah. Andy Talamantez has no idea coz you are the expert. He isn't... (He's a nice guy btw and we traded a lot of emails back and fourth over the issue trying out new things) and eventually it was due to a bad stick (failed memtest - every hardware I have gets put through some rigorous testing)...

How can you talk when you don't even know what settings I ran it on (stop with the fallacies, assumptions, and inconsistencies already)?

Micron D9s die pretty easy at all sorts of voltages (I so happened to run mine at stock). Well documented. Try googling (if anything, it gives you a base - Googling it is better than just talking in circles and banter on pure speculation).

First off I getting sick and tired of you and Max posting like snotty 2 year olds and have already mentioned it to Adrian and Chai. You two know everything right !!

Have your friend at OCZ clarify EVP. Gen and I checked it out but seemed vague. On my ram that is set for 2.15V does it limit the voltage by regulation or if it exceeds 2.15V does it crowbar the ram eliminating RMA? As far as I can figure EVP uses Zener diode technology so if ya want to put your rattle down for a sec perhaps you could ask him for us? I noted in the other thread you stated you were running the ram at 2.2V

[Lacus]

ok..Chill guys..I just got my 4850 (after being rma XD). Is there anything that need to be proved here?hmm, from gpu to rams o_O?

[Max_87]

Originally Posted by Mac Daddy

There is no U-Turn Max I just got tired of debating you guys check you facts a little more clearly I doubt the technology has changed that drastically in 20 years but glad someone was here to "clarify stuffs"

First off I getting sick and tired of you and Max posting like snotty 2 year olds and have already mentioned it to Adrian and Chai. You two know everything right !!

Who's the one whining like a 2 year old now?

I wasn't sure about why a lot of sites are saying that MOSFETs are positive co-efficient (opposite of what you said), that was why I asked empire23 to explain this since you didn't bother explaining it to us (or maybe you don't know how to explain? ). All you did was kept insisting that they are negative co-efficient.

And so, according to empire23:

The words themselves don't matter unless they're put in a useful context. Engineers throw around these phrases with charts included, so one has to switch their definition to meet the situation.

You agreed with this right? Since you were praising empire23 for his nice post Hmmmm.... but I remember that you still insisted it to be negative co-efficient just 2-3 posts before that and no explanation was given whatsoever, even though you discredit whatever that was shown on google.

There are still many examples of you doing WTFBBQ U-turns. Here's another one.

First you asked: (this is actually the 2nd or 3rd time )

IF the 4870 has a dual slot cooler and the 4850 doesn't why is the idle temp on the 4870 higher?

After I explained that the most possible reason why 4870 has lower load temp than 4850, you did a U-turn and said:

You seem to miss the whole point the testing procedure used for temperatures on that article are inaccurate you more or less said so yourself.

If that is true, why did you keep questioning 4870 has lower load temp then 4850? Didn't you "agreed" with us saying that the temperatures on that article are inaccurate?

I don't understand why you are so inconsistent aka U-turning here and there, please enlighten us mac kiddy oops i mean daddy. So sorry for the typo, now where's the backspace key... I can't seem to find it

[Max_87]

Originally Posted by Lacus

ok..Chill guys..I just got my 4850 (after being rma XD). Is there anything that need to be proved here?hmm, from gpu to rams o_O?

There is no point because what you are posting here can be searched with the very famous Google search engine which he despise so much. (as long as it's something that will be listed in the Google search results) So if you must prove something to him you must email to him personally or if you are really desperate you can make a hard copy and mail it over to Canada

[PsYkHoTiK]

Originally Posted by Mac Daddy

First off I getting sick and tired of you and Max posting like snotty 2 year olds and have already mentioned it to Adrian and Chai. You two know everything right !!

Have your friend at OCZ clarify EVP. Gen and I checked it out but seemed vague. On my ram that is set for 2.15V does it limit the voltage by regulation or if it exceeds 2.15V does it crowbar the ram eliminating RMA? As far as I can figure EVP uses Zener diode technology so if ya want to put your rattle down for a sec perhaps you could ask him for us? I noted in the other thread you stated you were running the ram at 2.2V

LMAO! I post like a 2 year old? You sir, are delusional, for I am not the one (you were actually describing yourself).

Since you are quite the n00b.
OCZ Technology | Products | Memory | OCZ DDR2 PC2-8500 Reaper HPC Edition

Andy told me they would warranty it even at 2.3v as that's what my sticks are rated at.

Read (and weep?) rated voltage...

I wonder if it ever occurred to you that your ram is not my ram.

Now if you actually knew anything about hardware and the industry, you would know who Andy Talamantez (better known as AndyOCZ) is. A well respected industry veteran both for service, knowledge, and overclocking. I won't even go there. But you probably know more than he does right?

So to reiterate:

Originally Posted by PsYkHoTiK

stop with the fallacies, assumptions, and inconsistencies already

My new ram runs at a lower voltage.

Because you have no actual facts to add to this and continuously change the course, Thread closed until further notice!