Zouk Abuse...

[Chai]

Yeah, who knows what's the true story anyway? Maybe it's 50/50? Like they did do it in the toilet, and got caught by the bouncers, thus attacked by them?

Like Adrian, I won't be pointing fingers until we know the true story. And the recent survey did show that 38% (I think) of Malaysians do it in the toilet. So we shouldn't rule out the possibility.

[Adrian Wong]

Interesting.. Someone anonymous posted this at 1800 hours :

NO! This is not real!
Pls dnt trust Ju Lee, that night i was with my friends clubbing in ZOuk Club!

My fren saw them Making Love inside the man toilet and someone inform the Zouk Management!

That day Zouk Club damn pack, and they saw Ju Lee BF was drunk! How can a guy who unhealthy can drink so drunk there?

Zouk Club is the top and highclass clubbing place in KL, they wont let this EMBRASSING shit happen under their roof!

Ju Lee, pls dnt make noise again since you are guilty party here!!!

Now, if that person actually steps forward and reveals his identity... wouldn't that be interesting?

[Adrian Wong]

Here's another interesting post :

Zouk’s night operation manager Mak Kim Siang maintained that the couple were ‘making out’ in the toilet and that was why they were ordered out of the premises.

In a statement to The Malay Mail, Mak said the incident occurred about 2am on the 2nd floor male toilet. He said a cleaner saw the couple going inside the toilet cubicle and alerted security.

“When our men went to the toilet to investigate, they heard noises from the cubicle. One of them climbed over the partition and saw a couple hugging and kissing.

“He knocked on the door and asked the couple to leave. As part of our standard house rules, anyone caught committing an indecent act must be told to leave the club,” he said.

“The male patron, however, refused to leave and made a scene outside the toilet.”

Mak said the situation got worse when the man kicked one of the security personnel.

Mak said there was a scuffle but he did not agree with Ju-Lee’s version of the alleged assault. “The security team then got the couple out of the premises.”

He said an hour later, the couple came back with a few policemen and Zouk’s security chief had to give a police statement on the incident.

“After the police officers heard our side of the story, the woman was again questioned on the alleged beating by our security personnel. Her story, however, was different. This time she claimed that only her male companion was assaulted, not her.”

Mak said she was reprimanded by police for not being consistent with her story.

http://www.mmail.com.my/Current_News...12212/Article/

[Dashken]

I don't think that guy/girl will reveal him/herself la. Crazy meh...

I don't think we will ever know what happened that night until some people with the same story fess up. But still, we may later suspect them being paid to cough out the stories.

Eh, only missionary where got nice, must try all positions la...

[Adrian Wong]

Originally Posted by Dashken

I don't think that guy/girl will reveal him/herself la. Crazy meh...

I don't think we will ever know what happened that night until some people with the same story fess up. But still, we may later suspect them being paid to cough out the stories.

Eh, only missionary where got nice, must try all positions la...

Well, if I was beaten up like them, I wouldn't mind showing my pictures, medical records, etc. Anything to beat Zouk into submission.

She claims they chose the back view for artistic reasons. Heh.. Still thinking of art when it comes to such matters?

[Adrian Wong]

Okay, here's a twist. Her friend sunnydays posted this :

Me and 2 other friends met up with Julz and James at Zouk.

We (minus the lovebirds) then went dancing when I got a message from Julz asking us to come up quickly. It seems James had been gone some time and she was worried. We packed off our guy friend to look for him.

Julz then subsequently gets a message from James for help and she rushes off to look for him and asked us to wait. (Our guy friend comes back later empty handed but we told him it was ok, Julz had gone to look for James.)

Some time passes. Some strange girl waves at me excitedly saying that my friend was looking for me. Puzzled, I followed her and turned to where she was pointing.

Shock and horrors!

I saw Julz on her hands and knees crying and James on his back on the ground! I pushed through a wall of men in black surrounding them (and curious on-lookers on the other side of a partition). One of the men (I believe they were all bouncers) tried to stop me by pushing me back but heck my pals were in trouble and no fat bouncer is going to keep me from getting to my friends!

As I pushed through I saw one of the men in black aim a kick at James! Julz was crying hysterically at that point and said over and over again to me to please please grab her bag and let’s go! I was at that point in the middle of a group of men in black in what felt to be a rather volatile situation with my friend in tears and her fiancé prone on the floor with what seemed to be blood on his face. I didn’t know what to do. So I did what she told me to do. I ran back, grabbed her bag and handed it to her. We somehow made it out without being further accosted by the bouncers.

I also got So mad when Julz told me what happened when she tried to make a proper statement to the police much later. The policewoman who was taking her statement told her she should be ashamed of herself for being in the men’s toilet and that she should watch her behaviour! And when Julz wanted to make a statement in English, the policewoman asked her rudely why she was speaking the ‘white man’s’ language and not bahasa melayu. The policewoman claimed she did not understand English. (Note: you have the right to make your statement in the language of your choice). So Julz gave her statement in bahasa melayu. She had to correct the statement several times for spelling corrections because the policewoman’s command of her native language was obviously not exactly first rate.

God what happened to sticking up for your fellow women? I tell you sometimes it is our own gender that makes the worst perpetrators of discrimination, which is totally unforgivable.

Anyways. I’m just so mad coz Julz and James got bashed!!!!

One more thing, I went to the police station a few days ago to make a report as an eye witness but the policewoman told me I had to get the Investigating Officer’s approval first. Which is total crap really. You have the right to make an independent report of an event you have witnessed. Anyways, we went back again today with Julz lawyer in tow and the police took both my report and my statement. (Julz’s lawyer is the Best!)

[GarPhreak]

Reading about the whole incident got me so frikkin' pissed... Now I come in here and read some of the replies and it makes me pissed too... No offense guys, I know you're all a great bunch, but seriously, OMFG!!!

The general response I'm getting here is, "Hmm, maybe they aren't telling the truth and the whole truth, they might've been making out in the restroom after all, so they were just asking for it and probably deserved what they got, yeah..."

First of all, the credibility of the story: No, I can't say for certain that is it a hundred percent true, but judging from the writing and articulation and all that jazz, it sure seems believable enough. It is a very well-written article and it didn't even raise in me the question of whether she could be telling lies or half-truths. Perhaps I was being a bit naive, but after reading the replies of course now I have to consider that. One thing for certain is that this incident did happen, since it came out in quite a few papers, right? So no doubt there.

So the fact is that this lady and her fiancee got beat-up by the Zouk bouncers because they were locked in a cubicle of the male restroom. This led the bouncers to believe they were making out, and supposedly was reason enough for them to justify their thuggish behaviour.

Now, as to whether she was lying and that they were making out, well, does that really matter? Making out in the toilet gives the bouncers the right to beat the crap out of you? Come on! The most they should do is throw you the f*ck out of the club and shitlist you, even make a police report if it's such a big deal!

"So why was the toilet door locked?" Well, if she's telling the truth, which I assume she is since there's nothing to gain from telling lies, then her account of why she locked the door makes sense. Her fiancee with a known health condition has been missing almost half an hour, she gets an SMS asking for help but doesn't get any co-operation from the cleaner, barges in and finds him inside a cubicle on the floor in real bad shape. So she goes in to clean him up and locks the door behind her since she doesn't want anybody thinking there's nobody inside and pushing open the door thus banging him on the head. Make sense?

"Well why not get him out of there a.s.a.p.?" I dunno, but given her description of things, you can imagine the state of mind she was in - panicked, wanting to attend to him but also needing to get help. The guy's passing out on the floor, she can't carry him out and away by herself without any help, so she waits, only instead of help she gets this big angry guy banging on the toilet shouting threats. Is it so surprising that she didn't open the door initially?

"How about the fact that the Chinese papers said they were making out too?" Well, you guys should know not to trust everything you read in the papers. [Of course, that might apply to the blog, but that's another story. ] Besides, where'd they get that information from anyway? Witnesses? The cleaner? The friggin' bouncers? Are any of those reliable sources? Hmm...

"Why were they drinking in the first place if the guy has a liver condition? Shouldn't the girl at least be more concerned about his health?" What can I say, that's really their own business isn't it? Some people still smoke/ drink even tho' others are worried about them. To her credit, she did say the drinks were way watered down.

"The guy asked for it by kicking out first!" This is a gem. The guy's a GUY, for crying out loud. Already he's feeling so weak and all, now four big guys are coming at him and his girlfriend, HARASSING them, can you blame him for showing some degree of machoism? He probably just wanted to protect his girl!

"Why should we believe them if they don't even have the guts to post any photos or medical records?" I dunno, maybe they just want to maintain some degree of privacy? Is that so wrong? Rather than posting up photos of themselves and risk being recognized on the street for the wrong reasons. You can already see the trashing they're getting online. Besides, aren't medical records private too?



Well, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, which I should expect I did. I guess I just couldn't take the crap they were taking after coming out with that incident. Bad enough that they had to experience it, now they have to deal with the online cynicism too. [Of course, assuming it's all true.] I guess I was just trying to be the opposite of the devil's advocate? Since apparently now there's no shortage of those.

Just kidding okay Boss? Don't ban me please!

Well, whether it's true or not, hopefully it'll be settled in court, then all the medical evidence/eyewitness reports/whatnot will come out and we'll know for certain when the verdict comes out. And if they ARE lying after all, then shame on me for believing them-lor...

[Adrian Wong]

Originally Posted by GarPhreak

Reading about the whole incident got me so frikkin' pissed... Now I come in here and read some of the replies and it makes me pissed too... No offense guys, I know you're all a great bunch, but seriously, OMFG!!!

The general response I'm getting here is, "Hmm, maybe they aren't telling the truth and the whole truth, they might've been making out in the restroom after all, so they were just asking for it and probably deserved what they got, yeah..."

First of all, the credibility of the story: No, I can't say for certain that is it a hundred percent true, but judging from the writing and articulation and all that jazz, it sure seems believable enough. It is a very well-written article and it didn't even raise in me the question of whether she could be telling lies or half-truths. Perhaps I was being a bit naive, but after reading the replies of course now I have to consider that. One thing for certain is that this incident did happen, since it came out in quite a few papers, right? So no doubt there.

So the fact is that this lady and her fiancee got beat-up by the Zouk bouncers because they were locked in a cubicle of the male restroom. This led the bouncers to believe they were making out, and supposedly was reason enough for them to justify their thuggish behaviour.

Now, as to whether she was lying and that they were making out, well, does that really matter? Making out in the toilet gives the bouncers the right to beat the crap out of you? Come on! The most they should do is throw you the f*ck out of the club and shitlist you, even make a police report if it's such a big deal!

"So why was the toilet door locked?" Well, if she's telling the truth, which I assume she is since there's nothing to gain from telling lies, then her account of why she locked the door makes sense. Her fiancee with a known health condition has been missing almost half an hour, she gets an SMS asking for help but doesn't get any co-operation from the cleaner, barges in and finds him inside a cubicle on the floor in real bad shape. So she goes in to clean him up and locks the door behind her since she doesn't want anybody thinking there's nobody inside and pushing open the door thus banging him on the head. Make sense?

"Well why not get him out of there a.s.a.p.?" I dunno, but given her description of things, you can imagine the state of mind she was in - panicked, wanting to attend to him but also needing to get help. The guy's passing out on the floor, she can't carry him out and away by herself without any help, so she waits, only instead of help she gets this big angry guy banging on the toilet shouting threats. Is it so surprising that she didn't open the door initially?

"How about the fact that the Chinese papers said they were making out too?" Well, you guys should know not to trust everything you read in the papers. [Of course, that might apply to the blog, but that's another story. ] Besides, where'd they get that information from anyway? Witnesses? The cleaner? The friggin' bouncers? Are any of those reliable sources? Hmm...

"Why were they drinking in the first place if the guy has a liver condition? Shouldn't the girl at least be more concerned about his health?" What can I say, that's really their own business isn't it? Some people still smoke/ drink even tho' others are worried about them. To her credit, she did say the drinks were way watered down.

"The guy asked for it by kicking out first!" This is a gem. The guy's a GUY, for crying out loud. Already he's feeling so weak and all, now four big guys are coming at him and his girlfriend, HARASSING them, can you blame him for showing some degree of machoism? He probably just wanted to protect his girl!

"Why should we believe them if they don't even have the guts to post any photos or medical records?" I dunno, maybe they just want to maintain some degree of privacy? Is that so wrong? Rather than posting up photos of themselves and risk being recognized on the street for the wrong reasons. You can already see the trashing they're getting online. Besides, aren't medical records private too?



Well, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, which I should expect I did. I guess I just couldn't take the crap they were taking after coming out with that incident. Bad enough that they had to experience it, now they have to deal with the online cynicism too. [Of course, assuming it's all true.] I guess I was just trying to be the opposite of the devil's advocate? Since apparently now there's no shortage of those.

Just kidding okay Boss? Don't ban me please!

Well, whether it's true or not, hopefully it'll be settled in court, then all the medical evidence/eyewitness reports/whatnot will come out and we'll know for certain when the verdict comes out. And if they ARE lying after all, then shame on me for believing them-lor...

BANNED!!!!!

LOL!! Relax, man..

Seriously, it won't be a discussion if everyone agrees with only one line of thought.

But don't get pissed. Why?

This is really an academic discussion. Will what we say here change anything? Frankly speaking, no.

In the first place, what's written in any blog should be considered as hearsay, unless it's backed by evidence and witnesses. Particularly so when the real identities of the persons involved are not stated.

All we have is one person's view of the whole affair. I'm not saying that she's lying. But it's a fact that she can tell what she THINKS is the truth and yet not tell the truth. What a person thinks is the truth is sometimes different from the truth.

Regarding her questionable actions in the washroom, well, the reason why people harp on it is not because we are prudes and think they shouldn't have done it in the toilet. No-no.. Statistically, some of us here will actually have done it in the toilet.

The reason why people pick at different parts of her story is because if she lies or embellishes her story, it puts her ENTIRE story to question.

Were they actually beaten and kicked to the point they have to go for plastic surgery? Did the bouncers kick or beat them without provocation? Or did they start it off themselves?

When I first read the story, I got just as pissed as you. What gives the bouncers the right to bash someone up? Kissing and even having sex in a toilet does not warrant such treatment.

I too thought that Zouk should be sued and the bouncers + manager brought to justice. I also thought that the behaviour of our police force was typical.

But a lesson I learned not so long ago was to listen to BOTH SIDES of the story. Like it or not, people tend to exaggerate their stories to make them look better.

We can choose to ignore the other side. After all, we love to see David win against the Goliath, wouldn't we? But is it fair?

WHAT IF the truth was totally different? What if they were drunk and high; and started the fight? Would the bouncers be right in kicking them out of the club? Would that be the real reason why the cops did not seem cooperative? Is there even a reasonable probability that Ju Lee was not telling the truth, as the truth should be told?

If the answer is yes, our duty as responsible citizens and netizens would be to question her claims and examine the other side's story BEFORE we make a judgement that may impair the company's and employees' reputation.

For all the sympathy that a compassionate human being like us may feel for Ju Lee and her boyfriend, we MUST be equally compassionate to the other party. They are also someone's boyfriend / husband / friend / relative. We have no right to convict them morally based on a SINGLE testimonial which is legally and psychologically prejudicial.

If we simply roar in outrage and go boycott or trash Zouk up, we will be nothing more than animals who cannot rationally evaluate an issue. Worse, if we finally discover that Ju Lee was lying all the while, we would have committed a crime, if not legally then morally.

Therefore, I would say it's not only our RIGHT to question such allegations, but also our DUTY to do so.

[Chai]

Garphreak, relax! No need to get so uptight for something that doesn't relate to you in anyway!

No matter how real it may seem to you, you still cannot rule out the fact that she may be lying, or unintentionally lying in anyway.

True, if the bouncers did indeed kicked them, then it's definitely their fault. But who knows the true story?

[zy]

who ever seen the other side of the moon ? .. (or did someone )

this applies here.. we dont know the other side of the story