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| | #21 (permalink) |
| Newbie Join Date: 8 Nov 2004
Posts: 2
Reputation: 0 ![]() Rep Power: 0 | I think I read it in the forums at Storagereview.com, but it's been ages ago and I don't have a link to the particular post. It was an interesting enough idea that it stuck in the back of my mind, and when I was reading your guide I remembered it, and wondered if it was important or not... Guess not? |
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| | #22 (permalink) |
| Da Boss Join Date: 10 Oct 2002 Location: In front of my ASUS F8V notebook!
Posts: 30,146
Reputation: 3081 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Rep Power: 67 | Well, the trouble with statements made by people in the forums is that anyone can say anything. That's the reason why we prefer to write and post articles. This allows people to critique. We can then refine it. In the end, we hope to present definitive conclusions on the particular topic, instead of thousands of "opinions" on the same topic.
__________________ Dr. Adrian Wong Tech ARP | Blog @ Tech ARP | The Free Trade Zone DYKT : The only offshore account I have is at the sand bank? Keep Tech ARP free! Visit our sponsors! We need PROGRAMMERS and TECHNICAL WRITERS! Contact us if you are a hot shot programmer or technical writer! My items for sale : 50x SD Card | Memory Stick PRO | Cyclone Energy Saver | Seiko SS watch | Tiger/Carlsberg beer jugs | Travel Speakers | Motorola V600 | Nokia N90 SOLD! | New Lowepro Mini Trekker AW Other items for sale @ the FTZ : Zalman CNPS9500 LED @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7700 Cu @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7000 Cu @ $20 | Swarovski bracelet watches | Dell 17" LCD | Hi-Fi speakers | English DIVX movies | HP LaserJet toners! | Office chairs |
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| | #23 (permalink) |
| Newbie Join Date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 4
Reputation: 0 ![]() Rep Power: 0 | The article repeating a common error in stating that on modern systems with lots of ram, you need less paging space. If you're a developer, or have production systems with support, you almost certainly want to be able to save a paging file dump if the system crashes. That requires that your paging file is large enough to hold a system memory dump. Due to what's similar to a file header in a swap file, that means you need at least 1xRAM+1 block of swap. For users who neither develop nor receive support on their system which might find a full dump useful, they obviously don't have this requirement. But many of us do, and it's a disservice to ignore this. As for using multiple paging files on multiple drives, Windows NT/2000 will automatically stripe when using two or more paging files (or rather, always write a page to the lowered numbered paging file with the most space free, which amounts to striping in practice). Just set the max size to the same size, and you'll get a striping effect. For XP, the same holds true, but if one drive is busy, the next drive will be immediately tried, meaning for single-block pages, XP is often faster, but for large pages, it evens out. Finally, make sure that the block size on the drive is equal to or a multiple of the ram page size. Unless running weird hardware (like NT 3.5 on RISC), the RAM page size will normally be 4k, so choosing a 4k block size while formatting the drive will be ideal, while 8k/16k/32k/64k also works, but won't make for optimal "striping" if using multiple paging files on multiple drives. Regards, -- *Art Last edited by arth1 : 9th Nov 2004 at 10:15 PM. Reason: NT/2000/XP Clarification |
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| | #24 (permalink) | |
| Da Boss Join Date: 10 Oct 2002 Location: In front of my ASUS F8V notebook!
Posts: 30,146
Reputation: 3081 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Rep Power: 67 | Hello arth1, For most users, it is true. You need less paging space with less memory. In fact, IF POSSIBLE, I personally would prefer to force Windows XP to use only system memory. There is no just substitute for fast system memory, if you want nothing but the best performance. Now, there are a couple of reasons why I am sticking by my assertions that you do NOT have to increase your paging file size if you increase the amount of system memory. 1. Yes, a COMPLETE memory dump would require the paging file to expand to the size of the system memory + 1MB. But that's only if you truly require a complete memory dump. Microsoft recommends sticking to a kernel memory dump, instead of a complete memory dump. Why? I'll quote them :- Quote:
2. Even if you restrict your paging file to, for example, 500MB; Windows XP will automatically expand the paging file to store the memory dump BEFORE it is written out to disk on the next reboot. Therefore, I consider it to be a real waste of hard disk space if you have 2GB of memory and yet create a 2GB paging file, just so Windows XP can write an enormous memory dump the next time it crashes. However, I agree with your thoughts on the block size. The paging file uses a page size of 4KB, so it would be advisable to use a stripe size of 4KB for optimal performance.
__________________ Dr. Adrian Wong Tech ARP | Blog @ Tech ARP | The Free Trade Zone DYKT : The only offshore account I have is at the sand bank? Keep Tech ARP free! Visit our sponsors! We need PROGRAMMERS and TECHNICAL WRITERS! Contact us if you are a hot shot programmer or technical writer! My items for sale : 50x SD Card | Memory Stick PRO | Cyclone Energy Saver | Seiko SS watch | Tiger/Carlsberg beer jugs | Travel Speakers | Motorola V600 | Nokia N90 SOLD! | New Lowepro Mini Trekker AW Other items for sale @ the FTZ : Zalman CNPS9500 LED @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7700 Cu @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7000 Cu @ $20 | Swarovski bracelet watches | Dell 17" LCD | Hi-Fi speakers | English DIVX movies | HP LaserJet toners! | Office chairs | |
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| | #25 (permalink) |
| News Writer Join Date: 7 Sep 2004 Location: ARP
Posts: 67
Reputation: 13 ![]() Rep Power: 0 | The article has just been updated! Even today, virtual memory is still very important component of the operating system. No matter how much memory you have, there is always a need for virtual memory. Therefore, its performance is of great importance. Optimizing the virtual memory system will greatly improve the performance of the computer. Today, we will take an in-depth look at data locality as well as memory dump files and their relationship with paging files. We will also take a look at the pros and cons of creating multiple paging files and moving the paging file to a RAID array. Come and check out the definitive Virtual Memory Optimization Guide! Here are the updates:-
Link : Virtual Memory Optimization Guide Rev. 4.0! |
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| | #26 (permalink) |
| Just Started Join Date: 13 Nov 2004 Location: London, Ontario Canada
Posts: 30
Reputation: 0 ![]() Rep Power: 0 | Excellent work on the article! Best I have read on the subject. I have a quick question that maybe I overlooked or isn't there. At the end you mention that multiple drives will increase performance (as long as they are physical drives and not on the same IDE channel). If I were to use multiple paging files on 2 drives, what size would I specify for each drive? Do I halve my "needs" between each drive or keep it the same? For example. Let's say I've calculated a 1 gig page file is best for my system and I have a permanent 1 gig page file on Drive 2 (Secondary Master). My OS being on Drive 1 (Primary Master). Now I've added a new hard drive on channel 3 (my motherboard has an onboard Promise controller) and I want to take advantage of multiple page files. Do I make EACH of drive 2 and 3's page file 1 gig or should I make each 512MB? Keeping in mind I calculated that 1 gig is the optimal size. Hopefully I made that clear. My question is if you want multiple page files on multiple drives, how do you allocate the size for each drive. Same as optimal, or 1/2 optimal (the only 2 that make sense to me) Thanks for your time! Justarius |
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| | #27 (permalink) |
| Newbie Join Date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1
Reputation: 0 ![]() Rep Power: 0 | Thanks for a very good and thorough guide. There was one think I was wondering about, and that was the section about IDE channels. While it is true that only one device can be accessed at any one time, isn't it possible to access both devices sequencially before the first device has returned the data and for all intents and purposes get the double rate. I'm just speculating here, without any knowledge of how the IDE bus actually works. |
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| | #28 (permalink) | |
| Da Boss Join Date: 10 Oct 2002 Location: In front of my ASUS F8V notebook!
Posts: 30,146
Reputation: 3081 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Rep Power: 67 | Quote:
Many thanks for your kind comments. As for your question, maybe I didn't make it clear enough. The size of the paging file should be calculated as a whole. That means no matter how many hard disks you want to split the paging file into, the amount of space dedicated to virtual memory should remain the same. Therefore, if your optimal amount of virtual memory is 1GB, you should naturally split it into two 512MB paging files on two different hard disks (on separate IDE channels). Hope that answers your question!
__________________ Dr. Adrian Wong Tech ARP | Blog @ Tech ARP | The Free Trade Zone DYKT : The only offshore account I have is at the sand bank? Keep Tech ARP free! Visit our sponsors! We need PROGRAMMERS and TECHNICAL WRITERS! Contact us if you are a hot shot programmer or technical writer! My items for sale : 50x SD Card | Memory Stick PRO | Cyclone Energy Saver | Seiko SS watch | Tiger/Carlsberg beer jugs | Travel Speakers | Motorola V600 | Nokia N90 SOLD! | New Lowepro Mini Trekker AW Other items for sale @ the FTZ : Zalman CNPS9500 LED @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7700 Cu @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7000 Cu @ $20 | Swarovski bracelet watches | Dell 17" LCD | Hi-Fi speakers | English DIVX movies | HP LaserJet toners! | Office chairs | |
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| | #29 (permalink) | |
| Da Boss Join Date: 10 Oct 2002 Location: In front of my ASUS F8V notebook!
Posts: 30,146
Reputation: 3081 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Rep Power: 67 | Quote:
The short answer is no. What you are possibly alluding to is command queuing and that feature is not available in most hard disks. Even then, command queuing cannot fully compensate for concurrent accesses to the hard disk via separate IDE channels.
__________________ Dr. Adrian Wong Tech ARP | Blog @ Tech ARP | The Free Trade Zone DYKT : The only offshore account I have is at the sand bank? Keep Tech ARP free! Visit our sponsors! We need PROGRAMMERS and TECHNICAL WRITERS! Contact us if you are a hot shot programmer or technical writer! My items for sale : 50x SD Card | Memory Stick PRO | Cyclone Energy Saver | Seiko SS watch | Tiger/Carlsberg beer jugs | Travel Speakers | Motorola V600 | Nokia N90 SOLD! | New Lowepro Mini Trekker AW Other items for sale @ the FTZ : Zalman CNPS9500 LED @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7700 Cu @ $20 | Zalman CNPS7000 Cu @ $20 | Swarovski bracelet watches | Dell 17" LCD | Hi-Fi speakers | English DIVX movies | HP LaserJet toners! | Office chairs | |
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| | #30 (permalink) |
| Newbie Join Date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1
Reputation: 0 ![]() Rep Power: 0 | Using diskeeper as an example, would the top or bottom part of the drive map represent the outer edge of the drive? My pagefile is currently close to the bottom. I'm a little bit confused since the article said the outer edge was considered the beginning of the drive so I thought it would make sense that the outer edge would be at the top of the drive map. |
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