ED#111 : Checked Your CD-Rs Lately? - Page 2

zy · 20th Jul 2009, 08:21 PM

lemme see, CD & DVD, i've no problem with high quality ones, when i was in INTI, there are students selling high quality OEM DVDs. no printed name, but you can check the disc info for manufacturer. they last long compared to the cheap DVD. the cheap DVD, i didnt use them for 1-2 years and when i try to use them, burning failed LOL.

and i also hear that burning CD/DVD at lower speed is better.

Kodak long term storage :

Temperature : 4 - 20C
Relative Humidity : 20 - 50%
source : General Recommendations for Long Term Storage Conditions

dthanna · 20th Jul 2009, 09:38 PM

As a person responsible for our corporate produced media, I've had to do some reasearch into this area - our discs got both clients and corporate records.

We run six Rimage 7100n's

Our media is this - MAM-A - 43165 & 43164 (Thermal White & Silver edge to edge)

In the 10 years we've been using MAM-A's product I've never had a disc failure due to dye or reflective layer issues. We've had many bad discs due to physical damage (scratches, warping, etc).

I've noticed several things to ensure long-lived media.
1) Buy a high-quality media - and be careful of rip-offs! Many 'Name Brand' media are rebraned from another manufacturer. A little web-search can lead you to who makes what. Tayo Yuden and MAM-A are both high quality. I prefer MAM-A because it's locally produced, in the U.S.A., yes something hi-tech still made stateside, uses the more stable, but harder to record, Phthalocyanine dye. Check MAM-A's site on this. And has a great bunch of folks out in Colorado to work with!

2) Use a high quality burner - both strong laser and good glass are key here. CDFreaks are great for reviews on this stuff. The same manufacturer can produce both a winners and loosers. We have a mixture from Optiarc and Plextor.

3) Proper labeling! - Do not use Avery(R) or STOMPER(tm) type labels. I just had a set of discs that were bad due to them. Over time the labels will shrink, causing the disc geometry to take a cup-shape. While the Rimage Everest technology is a bit pricy for the average user, you can always sharpie on the inner-hub area - where there is no data. Be careful not to write on the wobble-track. The inner most data area.

4) Storage - In good quality cases that do not out-gas, ON EDGE. Do not use paper envelopes, or at least use tyvek. - if you do, no windows (you have both plastic and glue that can be an issue.

For personal use, harddrives are great, but we still back those up to CD-R and DVD-R and vault those.

Now, I am not an expert in records retention, library management, or even one of the folks out at cdfreaks that goes for the deep dive into this material (but I do use, and thank you for the use, of the material that the folks at cdfreaks creates - thanks guys!), I do speak from experience. The kind that my job is on the line to either know the answer or find out the person that does.

Chai · 21st Jul 2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nateklomp

Fairly consistently, discs burned at lower speeds (regardless of perceived quality or cost) will last longer in storage. Assuming that's true, older discs are already at an advantage lifespan-wise: your pre-2002 CD writer was a lot slower (4x, 8x, 12x -- versus 32x, 48x, 52x) and would have introduced far fewer errors into the burn, ensuring a longer lifespan.

IMO, burning at lower speed improves the burning quality. That's a known fact. But I don't think that proves that it will last longer. I have tried that many times. It was working fine at first, but after awhile, my CD player couldn't read them anymore.

zy · 21st Jul 2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dthanna

1) Buy a high-quality media - and be careful of rip-offs! Many 'Name Brand' media are rebraned from another manufacturer. A little web-search can lead you to who makes what. Tayo Yuden and MAM-A are both high quality. I prefer MAM-A because it's locally produced, in the U.S.A., yes something hi-tech still made stateside, uses the more stable, but harder to record, Phthalocyanine dye. Check MAM-A's site on this. And has a great bunch of folks out in Colorado to work with!

yup, i remember buying blank printable oem Taiyo Yuden. much cheaper than the retails ones.

zy · 21st Jul 2009, 07:24 AM

use DVD identifier

here is one of my oem DVD disc.

sony d11

Chai · 21st Jul 2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zy

yup, i remember buying blank printable oem Taiyo Yuden. much cheaper than the retails ones.

I don't trust them anymore. Those Mitsubishi or Verbatims are crap.

sg168 · 21st Jul 2009, 09:01 AM

I totally agreed with dthanna's professional comments, as I have found out a few years ago that the warpage is the main culprit causing some of my CDRs not to be read properly. Who would store CDRs in dry box environment in Malaysia (where humidity > 60%) ??

Another main culprit for warpage is like you said, CD label. I don;t recommend using one, because the CD label (its made of paper) will shrink within 4-5 years in humid environment. Marker pen is still my main tool for labeling.

Just one advice for all, if you go pasar malam and buy those cheap DVDs (purple dye) and have read error intermittently, if you are too lazy to go out and exchange, just tear away the label and the DVD should be ok for reading..... Becareful with your finger nails though.....

Max_87 · 21st Jul 2009, 08:37 PM

I already gave up using CD/DVD-R to store my files for quite a long time, they are just too unreliable. I had experienced a few instances where the CD/DVD only lasted a few months before it became hard to read/files corrupted.

zy · 21st Jul 2009, 11:56 PM

my only use for DVD is reinstalling the OS. and maybe some softwares that are in CD/DVD form.

hahahah nth else. most of my genuine software have been transfered to my HD.

ZuePhok · 22nd Jul 2009, 03:12 AM

my pc has no optical drive.. for years!

these days, it's all about images, images and images..

20th Jul 2009, 08:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
zy zynine.com Join Date: 16 Dec 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 13,496 Reputation: 2276 Rep Power: 43	lemme see, CD & DVD, i've no problem with high quality ones, when i was in INTI, there are students selling high quality OEM DVDs. no printed name, but you can check the disc info for manufacturer. they last long compared to the cheap DVD. the cheap DVD, i didnt use them for 1-2 years and when i try to use them, burning failed LOL. and i also hear that burning CD/DVD at lower speed is better. Kodak long term storage : Temperature : 4 - 20C Relative Humidity : 20 - 50% source : General Recommendations for Long Term Storage Conditions __________________

20th Jul 2009, 09:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
dthanna Newbie Join Date: 20 Jul 2009 Posts: 1 Reputation: 0 Rep Power: 0	Corporate Type As a person responsible for our corporate produced media, I've had to do some reasearch into this area - our discs got both clients and corporate records. We run six Rimage 7100n's Our media is this - MAM-A - 43165 & 43164 (Thermal White & Silver edge to edge) In the 10 years we've been using MAM-A's product I've never had a disc failure due to dye or reflective layer issues. We've had many bad discs due to physical damage (scratches, warping, etc). I've noticed several things to ensure long-lived media. 1) Buy a high-quality media - and be careful of rip-offs! Many 'Name Brand' media are rebraned from another manufacturer. A little web-search can lead you to who makes what. Tayo Yuden and MAM-A are both high quality. I prefer MAM-A because it's locally produced, in the U.S.A., yes something hi-tech still made stateside, uses the more stable, but harder to record, Phthalocyanine dye. Check MAM-A's site on this. And has a great bunch of folks out in Colorado to work with! 2) Use a high quality burner - both strong laser and good glass are key here. CDFreaks are great for reviews on this stuff. The same manufacturer can produce both a winners and loosers. We have a mixture from Optiarc and Plextor. 3) Proper labeling! - Do not use Avery(R) or STOMPER(tm) type labels. I just had a set of discs that were bad due to them. Over time the labels will shrink, causing the disc geometry to take a cup-shape. While the Rimage Everest technology is a bit pricy for the average user, you can always sharpie on the inner-hub area - where there is no data. Be careful not to write on the wobble-track. The inner most data area. 4) Storage - In good quality cases that do not out-gas, ON EDGE. Do not use paper envelopes, or at least use tyvek. - if you do, no windows (you have both plastic and glue that can be an issue. For personal use, harddrives are great, but we still back those up to CD-R and DVD-R and vault those. Now, I am not an expert in records retention, library management, or even one of the folks out at cdfreaks that goes for the deep dive into this material (but I do use, and thank you for the use, of the material that the folks at cdfreaks creates - thanks guys!), I do speak from experience. The kind that my job is on the line to either know the answer or find out the person that does.

21st Jul 2009, 08:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
Max_87 h@x! Join Date: 11 Aug 2003 Location: the land of bandwidth cap Posts: 11,446 Reputation: 2090 Rep Power: 38	I already gave up using CD/DVD-R to store my files for quite a long time, they are just too unreliable. I had experienced a few instances where the CD/DVD only lasted a few months before it became hard to read/files corrupted. __________________ Max_87 Tech ARP http://www.techarp.com Dell Studio 15 / P7350 / 3GB DDR2 / Radeon HD 3450 / 250GB 7200RPM / 15" @ 1920x1200 E8600 @ 4.4GHz 1.36v / Asus P5E3 Deluxe / 2x2GB DDR3 / Radeon X1800 / Barracuda 7200.9 120GB / 7200.10 320GB x2 / Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS / WD6400AAKS x2 / Dell 2007FP x2 / Silverstone ST56F

21st Jul 2009, 11:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
zy zynine.com Join Date: 16 Dec 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 13,496 Reputation: 2276 Rep Power: 43	my only use for DVD is reinstalling the OS. and maybe some softwares that are in CD/DVD form. hahahah nth else. most of my genuine software have been transfered to my HD. __________________

22nd Jul 2009, 03:12 AM	#20 (permalink)
ZuePhok Hold me back! I can't stop posting!!! Join Date: 16 Dec 2002 Location: Floating Island Of Mandango Posts: 8,810 Reputation: 3294 Rep Power: 48	my pc has no optical drive.. for years! these days, it's all about images, images and images.. __________________ my motto: poison first, think later.

21st Jul 2009, 09:01 AM	#17 (permalink)
sg168 Newbie Join Date: 5 May 2004 Posts: 3 Reputation: 0 Rep Power: 0	I totally agreed with dthanna's professional comments, as I have found out a few years ago that the warpage is the main culprit causing some of my CDRs not to be read properly. Who would store CDRs in dry box environment in Malaysia (where humidity > 60%) ?? Another main culprit for warpage is like you said, CD label. I don;t recommend using one, because the CD label (its made of paper) will shrink within 4-5 years in humid environment. Marker pen is still my main tool for labeling. Just one advice for all, if you go pasar malam and buy those cheap DVDs (purple dye) and have read error intermittently, if you are too lazy to go out and exchange, just tear away the label and the DVD should be ok for reading..... Becareful with your finger nails though.....