911 Conspiracy Theories - Did The US Government Do It?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Adrian Wong, Apr 29, 2006.

  1. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

  2. To be honest, I wouldn't put it past Bush. There's too many connections with Bush and the Bin Laden family. One thing I know about Middle Eastern Cultures is that family ties are very important. It may still be speculation, but the more connections that are unearthed, the more I'm convinced that this act was pre-meditated. :shock: :shifty: :(
  3. =CDU=Above

    =CDU=Above Newbie

    Didn't have time to watch the whole thing. But of what I've seen of the film so far, I can find a few flaws in his theories. As far as the flash before the impact. Look at it again. You'll see that the length of the fuselage is quite shorter when the flash occurs...meaning some of the craft has already crushed into the building. I know that it looks as if impact had not yet been made but the flash itself takes aways color from the plane when it's shot from that distance and then zoomed in and pixelated.

    Do you have any idea how many people would have to be on board with this to be a conspiracy? It would take literally 1000s of people to cover something like this up. Don't you think that one would say something?
    I find it much easier to believe that a small group of men took over three planes and crashed them into three different buildings.
    I stood right in the middle of ground zero on Oct 11, exactly one month after the attacks. Changed me.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2006
  4. Trinity

    Trinity Little Kiki Staff Member

    I always thought something was "fishy" about it all...

    and then that "WMD" Bullshit to start the war in Iraq...


    There is nothing I can do...:faint::? :? :?
  5. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    It does seem a bit farfetched, considering the fact it would require the cooperation of a LOT of people who must be fully willing to cover it up.

    Like they say, the chance of a secret blowing up is the square of the number of people in the know. If that's correct, then a secret is certainly exposed once 10 people know about it. :D

    Still, there are a LOT of odd facts or coincidences about 9/11. It will be quite hard to explain it all. For example, the FBI's reluctance to release all footages of the cameras covering the crash at the Pentagon.
  6. I totally agree with you. I was wondering about the amount of manpower that was needed just to make that whole operation a success. Too many loose ends that I think the US government would have to tie up. That would neither be efficient for them.

    But what I am considering is all the stock market movement that took place just months before the tragedy. It's too much of a coincidence that all the companies/people were able to prepare themselves for a "possible" disaster. :snooty:

    Bush Sr. also has too many ties with too many Arabs. Not that Arabs are terrible people. It just smells too fishy to me. :eh:
  7. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    It's possible that the attack was really done by Al Qaeda, but the US government could possibly have had prior warning.

    All those stock movements and the insurance purchase just before 9/11 is just too much of a coincidence... :think:
  8. =CDU=Above

    =CDU=Above Newbie

    I might be able to buy some of that. When I was in New York, there was talk about the Jewish employees not showing up that day because they had prior knowledge and tried to warn the U.S.<---who didn't heed the warning. I'd buy some of this talk way before I'd believe all the other stuff.

    Another thing, where are all the people of those flights? Who did the voice acting when the people on the planes called their loved ones?
    You know what I mean?

    This is just some kid trying to make a name for himself with his little site. Seems to have worked too. This isn't the first place that I've seen the link. People love conspiracies.
  9. I was also thinking that it may be possible that Bush is actually in collaboration with Al Qaeda. :think:

    I also didn't want to believe that part about the passengers on the hijacked planes. I mean, there were grieving families. But then again, if they were prepared to extinguish so many lives at the WTC itself, what's a little more? On the other hand, air traffic controllers were able to monitor the hijacked planes so it's also close to impossible to switch the planes right? :think:

    Whether or not it was a kid, the documentary still raised a lot of valid points as well as far-fetched ideas. But from what I can see with how everything is going, I think Bush will be the ruin of the US. :faint:
  10. jamotto

    jamotto Newbie

    We will never know the truth about 9/11. :think:
  11. PsYkHoTiK

    PsYkHoTiK Admin nerd

    Whatever or whoever did it, it doesn't undermine the fact a lot of lives were lost. I hope whoever was involved burns for it... Not only for the people who lost their lives that day, but also for the people who are continously affected by it to this day.
  12. hear hear for the two posts above....
  13. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    BTW, I think the front portion has something about Bin Laden checking into a US Navy hospital, or something like that?

    Also, the Bin Laden video confession does look spotty. The Bin Laden in that clip looks quite different from other Bin Laden pictures when you compare them... :think:

    Finally, I just wonder why it is so difficult for the combined forces of the US, Pakistani and Afghanistan armed forces to capture Bin Laden. Is he that stealthy??? :confused:
  14. Another very interesting point. Anything that is hidden will never remain hidden. We will find out the truth sooner or later. :shifty:
  15. fyire

    fyire Newbie

    I'm guessing that its gonna be one of those JFK type mysteries lar. Maybe 50 years from now, then only more documents on the incidents will be released to the public and so on.

    Hmm.. on another side of things, I can't help wondering if those like the Al-Queda and so on will be more effective if they're to take on the role of the modern day robin hood rather than just simply trying to blow things up. Think about it, they've got the expertise in running covert operations, remaining hidden, smuggling stuff all over the place and so on. Which will really give them a big advantage when it comes to doing stuff like pirating software, music, movies and so on, of which will probly get them better support from the general public, and will mainly hurt the pockets of bush's primary supporters
  16. =CDU=Above

    =CDU=Above Newbie

    You are assuming that their minds work like yours. They don't. They have no interest in helping you get free software. :haha: And they don't want your love and support.

    They want to kill you.....and everyone else that dosen't think you should die.
  17. fyire

    fyire Newbie

    Not exactly, this is not about how minds works and not about free software, and not about love and support, and not just about simply killing people and so on.

    Ok, this can get a bit long, so I'll summarize my points first:
    - Reasons
    - Purpose
    - The People involved
    - Methodology used

    To most of us, I'm guessing that we must think that nobody in their right minds will ever want to be involved in that sort of activities, and that their minds are like pure alien minds or something. But take a look at the background of most of the grunts. Growing up an a country with extreme poverty, having foreign organizations squeeze whatever they can out of your country and so on.

    The primary reason for such activities is actually a reason to do with economics, and nothing to do with religion at all. Sadly enough, religion had been used throughout the ages as a tool or catalyst, and is very often misinterpreted as a result and becomes the scrap goat.

    To quote Karl Marx (personally I think that Karl Marx is a very misunderstood fellow), 'Religion is the opium of the masses'. There is nothing that can unify a group of people more and turn them into extremists like religion can, especially when religion has become the only thing that they can ever reply on as a pillar for the miserable lives that they go through day after day.

    When you introduce religion used in a wrong way to people who has got absolutely nothing else to lose, that's when you get very willing recruits for such activities.

    The purpose of terrorism is not about simply killing people, bombing things or places. Its actually more to do with getting attention.

    Now, first look at the scenario of a bunch of university students taking to the streets in protest over something unpopular their university administration did. The purpose of this is to disrupt the normal activities that the administration is accustomed to, and not to mention that students rioting is bad PR for the university, hence, is a method of forcing the university administration to the negotiation tables which was previously closed.

    Terrorism is about the same thing, on a different scale. Primary aims are:
    - To disrupt the regular day to day activities of their target
    - To get widespread attention to their agenda and issues and bones they've got to grind with their target

    Some may wonder, why can't everybody just talk nicely right? Well, the truth is, some humans can just be plain scum (recall all those posts about some of the members in the Malaysian Police, or that electrician scammer?), and their only interest is to exploit others to the fullest. Well, most times, this is a case of exploitation on the macro scale, when an entire country or countries are being pressed down. On the macro scale, the actions are not as obvious, but the effects can be rather widespread indeed.

    The people Involved:
    For the most part, the grunts are very likely to be uneducated or partially uneducated, except for religious studies (which is likely to be the reason why religion is used as the catalyst here). However, the top ranking people are likely to be different, depending on their roles in the organization too. Hence, there can be some pretty smart people involved as well, both for reasons I had mentioned above or for their own personal reasons too.

    Methodology used:
    From what we can see everyday, the usual methodology used here is one of violence. But as we can see here, the superb PR campaign that Bush and gang has done up. Even the IRA in Ireland had given up arms and gone political instead. Hence my reasoning that a different approach to the normal bombing and killing will produce far better results

    Well, its not just about pirating software, but any form of action that will hurt the pockets of the primary supporters of their target.

    I used to tell people back in university that there is no such thing as a fight that cannot be won, it is just a matter of choosing the right time and the right place and the right methods, and most importantly, the persistance to see it all through to the end.

    There are enough smart people involved to be able to implement the change in methodology, but one problem major problem that I can see is in the religious fever that they've created out of the entire thing. Its like trying to stop an avalanche after its more than halfway down a mountain. Instead of leading the revolution, they're just getting led by it, and are having great difficulties in trying to steer it.
  18. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Wow.. That's a really long post! :thumb:

    Yeah, I do agree with you on that. But in the case of pirating software, the guys at the top will have a much harder time explaining to the grunts how pirating software is actually a vicious attack against the enemy. :D

    For the grunts, nothing is more satisfying than physically causing damage to the enemy, i.e. killing him. That's why terrorist organizations always resort to bombs, guns, etc.

    But being religiously-motivated does not mean they will behave ethically or righteously. Many terrorist groups still finance themselves by running drugs. Wouldn't be surprised if some actually pirate software for financial purposes! :D

    So, it could actually be happening right now. I can't be sure, but it's possible.

    However, as to whether it actually hurts companies they pirate from, well, that's really hard to determine.

    Is Microsoft or Adobe losing money from piracy? In a sense, yes. But because software can be duplicated infinitely at minimal cost, they don't actually lose anything. All they lose is potential revenue.

    Not that I'm advocating piracy. Just trying to show that piracy won't really hurt them as much as you think it might. Even with the current state of piracy, companies like MS still managed to expand and become the behemoths they are today. :mrgreen:
  19. fyire

    fyire Newbie

    Well, the point is not about really being able to hurt those like Microsoft and so on. Think of 911 for example. As a nation, had it really destroyed America? Nup. While its true that its a big tragedy, but life just goes on as per normal as well. But what it had accomplished is to disrupt the lives of ordinary people, cause loses, make people feel more insecure and so on.

    So, the theory is the same here. The purpose is not to bring down those giants, but to disrupt operations. Those effected first will be those in the front lines, such as the software retail stores, music stores, or theaters. This will then accumulate upwards towards the regional branches and so on.

    Remember that we're talking about the macro scale here, where its not the individual action that counts, but rather the cumulative results of it all that effects things. That combined with a good PR campaign and timing can be pretty effective indeed.

    Now, imagine this scenario: Those underground groups announced that they just brought in a big big shipment of goodies somewhere, or managed to crack some new copy protection thingy or something. Imagine how the public shareholders will feel about this. Remember how a few days ago, when MS released their financial filings, and the growth rate is not to expectation, and that had wiped off billions off their Market Capitalization value? It wont kill them, but that's seriously got to hurt. So, basically, its the same sort of scenario here.

    Also, the other way of looking at it is, you can continue hurting something over and over again, as long as you keep it alive. But once you have killed it, that's it. So, maybe the more correct term here will be, to torture the pockets of their supporters continously. An uncertain market is what that scares investers.

    The other thing is in regards to what you mentioned about resorting to violence and bombs and so on. Well, terrorism is changing how people look at warfare, no longer being on the huge battlefields of WWI and WWII. Thus, its either change or die here. Well, that's life in general lar, being able to change to adapt to the times, or get left behind.
  20. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Actually, terrorism is more than just disrupting lives. What they are trying to do is make people so afraid of going about their daily routines that it paralyzes the nation.

    For example, 9/11. Although everyone sees it as an attack against the WTC and Pentagon, it's actually not so.

    What they did was paralyze America's air transportation. All flights were grounded on 9/11. And security at airports were tightened to the point of inconvenience for travellers. As a result, fewer people travelled on airplanes.

    If Al Qaeda continued hijacking planes and using them as flying bombs, they could actually cripple air transportation, which will greatly affect the world's economy.

    Even more people won't dare to fly. Pilots will refuse to fly. Airlines will have to greatly expand and improve their security, making it even more costly to do business.

    The same goes for all those bombs they set off, in Bali and elsewhere. The purpose, as you say, isn't really to cause damage, but rather to cause so much fear and confusion that people won't be able to go about their daily routines.

    Now, regarding piracy, I seriously doubt it will really hurt the US economy. People have been pirating software and cracking protection schemes since software was created. And yet, software companies are still as strong as they are.

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