Alkaline Water Filter - Fact or Crap?

Discussion in 'Adrian Wong' started by Adrian Wong, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    If you are living in a relatively developed country, with a chlorinated water supply, then you need not worry about bacterial contamination, even if the water is getting contaminated through a break in the pipe. That's because the chlorine in the water would kill the bacteria.

    So, a simple particle filter would do in most cases. This keeps out whatever dirt gets into the water system due to leaks in pipes, or repairs to the pipes. You can use either ceramic / nylon particle filters - they both work just as well.

    If you want an extra layer of filtration, then pair the particle filter with a simple activated carbon filter. This will remove whatever little odour there is in water (again, from occasional contamination en route).

    There are simple water filters in the market that combine these two filters and even allow for interchangeable filters (you can swap generic ceramic, nylon or activated carbon filters). They definitely cost less than RM 70 (~US$ 22.50). If you buy such a double filter, it would be a good idea to install the ceramic / nylon particle as the first filter, and the activated carbon filter as the second filter.

    Hope that helps you some! :)
  2. funghi2

    funghi2 Newbie

    I know this is an old post but was hoping i could add some info. yes even in a big city i would say use an RO filter. there is fluoride, chlorine, and all sorts of crap u do not want to be drinking too much of.

    im no expert on the acid base diet stuff. i did research it a while back and there are some things worth mentioning.
    1- yes what you eat absolutely has an effect on the acid base balance of your body. when people say it is tightly regulated they are speaking about the blood. the ph of your blood is just above 7 and does not vary much or you will be dead rather quickly. this brings up a point does your body regulate it? it does this through various ways but mostly by using calcium. where does it get the calcium? your bones! so in an effort to save your stupid 2 hamburger a day eating life your body pulls calcium from wherever it can to keep your blood ph constant. this is significant in my opinion.
    next is the HCL acid issue. people talk about the ph of a food they are talking about the ash of that food. so you eat an acidic lemon but the ash of which is basic so it has an alkalizing effect on the body. lastly, im not too much into the hocus pokus nonsense. i dont know if that alkalizing filter does anything, i think they work on a reduction basis but am not too sure. as far as the diet i think its clear. what is this diet really asking you to do? eat less meat and eat more veggies. seems like sound advice whether its a cure all or not. i personally love pizza and burgers too much but hopefully cram enough greens down my gullet to compensate somewhat.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  3. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Well, that's not how the body regulates the blood pH. Check this out :

    "For instance, if the blood pH drops too low (acidemia), the body will compensate by increasing breathing thereby expelling CO2, and shifting the above reaction to the left such that fewer hydrogen ions are free; thus the pH will rise back to normal. For alkalemia, the opposite occurs.

    The kidneys are slower to compensate, but renal physiology has several powerful mechanisms to control pH by the excretion of excess acid or base. In response to acidosis, tubular cells reabsorb more bicarbonate from the tubular fluid, collecting duct cells secrete more hydrogen and generate more bicarbonate, and ammoniagenesis leads to increased formation of the NH3 buffer. In responses to alkalosis, the kidney may excrete more bicarbonate by decreasing hydrogen ion secretion from the tubular epithelial cells, and lowering rates of glutamine metabolism and ammonium excretion."

    The point is :

    1. These filters do not create water with enough alkalinity to affect anything.
    2. Even if they created one that did do that, the body would compensate.
    3. If people start doing crazy things like drinking lye water which is highly alkaline, they can die.

    So no, it's not about eating vegetables more than meat. It's about not listening to people peddle pseudoscientific apparatus like alkaline water filters.
  4. Reply

    Smoking is bad for health. I have also heard that smoking and just after that taking water (Which is not boiled) is harmful for health. But I am not sure about it.
  5. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Smoking is bad, irrespective of whether you drink boiled or tap water after smoking.
  6. bradhudson

    bradhudson Newbie

    Alkaline water drops

    Has anybody heard of alkaline water drops here?

    I just came to know about them recently from a friend, there is no good info about this online.

    Although companies promise various benefits for their products, but it really looks skeptical to pour drops in water just to make it alkaline. It appears as if it is a medicine, but this time they are not form pharma companies.

    So, any advice please?
  7. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    No, but it's easy (and cheap) to make water alkaline. Just buy some food-grade lye and put a drop or two into your water. Voilà - alkaline water!

    However, I need to remind you again that any alkaline food or drinks you take will just get neutralized in the strong stomach acids. Highly alkaline water is caustic and will damage the lining of your oesophagus.

    So don't waste your time or money. It's just hocus-pocus.
  8. timekillers

    timekillers Banned

    My experience with alkaline water ionizers have been great! When I had visited my doctor a year ago he told me I was diagnosed with acidosis. I went through the internet to see if I could understand the source of the issue. Alot of people pointed me towards Alkaline Water.

    So I visited a website a friend suggested to me (link below) and the product worked wonders for me. My doctor said my health has improved!

    So as far as im concerned from personal experience is it NOT crap!



    That company has been reliable for me. Good product.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2013
  9. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    That was such a lame advertisement attempt. Alkaline water ionizers are crap, period.

    1. The theory is utter nonsense.

    2. There is no scientific basis for alkaline water therapy.

    3. There is NO alkaline water filter / ionizer in the market that can produce truly alkaline water.

    4. Highly alkaline water is dangerous for health. Why do you think no one drinks lye?

    We know this, not from personal experience, but from proper scientific investigations.
  10. Komodo

    Komodo Newbie

    Well, Doc, you defended a corrupt system rather nicely in all of that. One of your statements - that the government would act in the interests of public health - flies in the face of our real world experiences. For example, it is an uncontested fact that America has a slight issue with childhood obesity. And yet, in government funded schools, captive markets of children are deliberately presented with more unhealthy options that healthy ones. If what you said were true, our kids would be protected from - rather than handed over to - slick marketing agencies who peddle poisons for Wall Street.

    You sign as a doctor, yet you are baffled that an acid can have an alkalinizing effect on the body? Are you aware that body builders and folks that perform labor-intensive work that over-uses certain muscle groups often take a shot of apple cider vinegar (acidic) to get rid of lactic acid build up in the affected muscle groups?

    And you display shock that water which has a high oxidation reduction potential would be said to fight free radicals. That's just astonishing, coming from a purported physician. What do you suppose oxidation reduction MEANS, in the human body - of not PRECISELY "the elimination of free radicals?" And what possible authority can you cite which refutes the general medical consensus that free radicals are anything EXCEPT agents of pathology?

    You claim that the body automatically adjusts it's PH balance to near-optimum. Well, that is patently false. It automatically TRIES. But environmental factors including stress, diet, pollution, smoking, drug use, etc. can easily prevent the body's attempts to regulate PH - and more often than not DO, in the USA.

    Reading your blast-off against claims made by proponents of alkalinized water, one is instructed that our government is an honest broker in the matter of public health. Given the profound influence of big pharma and big insurance and big ag - all three of which industries affect public health and all three of which industries openly award retiring department heads of the FDA and EPA with sinecures after only two years of good behavior as industry toadies, that's instruction rings false. Given the relative shell game that was our public health system before ACA and the cosmic zen riddle it is in the wake of that "reform," the notion that the government is not a wholly owned subsidiary of the Wall Street firms which appoint it's hirelings and draft it's legislation.

    Americans are suffering a pandemic of perfectly avoidable diseases, most of which are contracted due to ignorance and under-regulation of the industries which profit from both cause and treatment. Notice I did NOT say cure, as the system in which you place such faith eschews such. Cures are rarely synthetic and therefore rarely patentable. As such, they are not tolerated by the industries which make their billions offering fast, temporary relief.

    As to your suggestion that the author of the article you're skewering ought to prove his case by drinking lye, the author's claim is not that everything alkaline is healthy - such as the sodium hydroxide and saponified oils found in lye; only that alkaline WATER is healthy. Alkalinized arsenic, alkalinized anthrax and alkalinized hammers to the face were likewise expressly omitted in the paper you critiqued - yu can double check if you doubt me.

    In summary, doc (is that an honorific?),

    1. ORP by DEFINITION refers to the potential to fight free radicals;

    2. The US Government is MANIFESTLY not the honest broker you pretend;

    3. Yes, acidic substances - Vitamin C among them - can have an alkalinizing effect on the human body - the acidifying or alkalinizing effect of foods is based not on THEIR PH balance but upon the cumulative nature of the compounds they produce when metabolized;

    4.The claim that alkaline WATER is beneficial ought not to provoke from a genuine man of science a pugnacious suggestion that the fellow MAKING that claim should ingest lye, under the pretense that such a dare is some form of refutation. It is not. It is quite the opposite of a refutation. It makes the claimant appear unfairly attacked by a fellow who can only be assumed to be either mis-stating his credentials, or to be blinded by an undisclosed interest; and

    5. The billion dollar antacid industry would intuitively give the lie to your preposterous claim that the human body will manage it's own PH balance within close parameters of the optimum. It will TRY - that is why an acidic body is in a state of disease by definition: An acidic body has failed to maintain it's optimum PH balance. And medical professionals are well aware that most middle aged Americans are registering about 6 on the PH scale - DANGEROUSLY acidic. This condition is easily corrected by imbibing a half gallon or more of 9.5 PH water daily - but Wall Street doesn't make a penny, and in fact loses money due to disappearing symptoms.

    I am no scientist, sir. I do not even consider myself particularly literate in scientific discussions. I generally sit on the sidelines when science is debated, looking for a layman's clues to decide whom to trust in a non-layman dispute. But in reading your strained and emotional and factually bereft critique of a claim which - however correct or incorrect - appears far above your general comprehension of basic chemistry and physiology, I feel perfectly competent to pick a few of your more glaring errors and say of each, "Uh - no. That is just wrong, on a VERY basic level."
  11. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    America does not have a slight issue with obesity. America has a BIG PROBLEM with obesity. :D

    What would you call Michelle Obama's "Let's Move!" initiative or her Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act? More ways for government to feed American children with junk food? :snooty:

    "The new standards are exhaustive, including calorie ranges for each age group, sodium limits, zero tolerance for trans fats, and specific ounce amounts for meats and grains. White bread will be mostly phased out beginning in 2014 because only “whole grain rich” items will be allowed."

    Saying that an acid can have an alkalinizing effect on the body is like saying that ice can have a warming effect on the body.

    Some athletes also wear a special ring, or carry amulets for good luck. That doesn't mean they work. So it doesn't matter if body builders drink apple cider vinegar hoping to get rid of lactic acid in their muscles - there is no scientific basis for such claims.

    I am now displaying shock that you think that ORP stands for "oxidation reduction potential" when I clearly pointed out that the advertisement was wrong and ORP actually stands for "Oxidation OR Reduction Potential" or the shorter version, just "Reduction Potential". :shock:

    In other words, ORP refers to the substance's potential to CREATE free radicals, not reduce it...


    Incidentally, free radicals, like cholesterol, are actually ESSENTIAL for life. In fact, recent studies have found that antioxidants may cause cancers to progress even more rapidly than normal :

    "Smokers and other people at high risk for lung cancer could make matters worse if they take antioxidant supplements, a new study of rodents suggests.

    Antioxidants appear to accelerate cancer progression by short-circuiting one of the body's key immune responses to malignant cells, researchers from Sweden report.

    Normal doses of vitamin E and smaller doses of the antioxidant supplement acetylcysteine increased the growth of tumors in mice with early lung cancer, the researchers reported in the Jan. 29 issue of Science Translational Medicine."

    No, you are patently ignorant and just plain wrong. :naughty:

    Your blood has to stay within a narrow pH limit of 7.35-7.45, or you will be in serious trouble. The body does this pretty well using buffering agents, the lungs and the kidneys.

    No ifs, no buts, no maybes.

    No doubt the revolving door is a problem but this is true for any regulatory body. But it does not detract from the FACT that :

    a) the human body must maintain its pH level
    b) alkaline water filters do not produce water of any significant alkalinity
    c) drinking very alkaline water will kill a person, not give improve his/her life

    No amount of corporate money can cover that up.

    I agree with you that there is under-regulation. In fact, I have always called for the US FDA to have greater powers and oversight, including over supplements which, believe it or not, is NOT REGULATED AT ALL. :shock:

    I place no faith in any system, only accept the evidence for things that work. There are many cures, and while patents are a necessary evil, they do run out and the world is free to produce such medicines at much lower costs thereafter.

    No, the author's claim is that it is the ALKALINITY of the water that is critical. Did he/she mention what's in the alkaline water? How do you know there's no sodium hydroxide in it?

    In any case, what's wrong with sodium hydroxide? Is it poisonous? If so, why do bakers apply them to pretzels, or the Chinese use them to make yellow noodles or Century eggs?

    As pointed out above, ORP does NOT refer to the potential to fight free radicals. :mrgreen:

    In fact, ORP refers to the the substance's potential to CREATE free radicals.

    I do not pretend that the US government is anything at all. I don't believe I ever made such a claim, but if I did, please quote me. Thank you.

    No, Komodo, they cannot. You can repeat yourself until the cows come home, but it wouldn't change that fact. What you think is true is merely a misunderstanding of human physiology.

    The body will maintain its pH level, irrespective of what you eat or drink. The excess alkalinity or acidity is handled by the buffers as well as the lungs and kidneys. That's why taking lots of vitamin C will result in an acidic urine. The body still maintains its pH but the urine becomes acidic.

    Just because your urine is acidic or alkaline does NOT mean your body is. It just means your body is doing its job of regulating its pH to keep you alive.

    The challenge to drink lye is to point out the IDIOCY of simply insinuating that alkalinity of our foods and water is what determines what's healthy and what's not. After all, lye water is a form of alkaline water.

    Your misunderstanding of how antacids work is obvious, because antacids work by neutralising acid in the stomach and the upper GI system. They don't change the blood pH, at least not for long, because the body will neutralise any changes to return to its optimal pH range.

    You fail to point out that alkaline water filters aren't free, and they are certainly not cheap. They cost a ton more than regular water filters, so this isn't about helping people. This is about making money through unscrupulous means. This makes alkaline water filter proponents and sales people no better than Wall Street.

    I'm glad you admit you are not particularly literate in science. That much is obvious.

    You claim that I was being emotional and factually-bereft, but I disagree. I was being incredulous at the sheer ignorance. How does one respond to utter nonsense?

    If they cannot even get the definition of ORP correct, or come up with nonsensical terms like "active hydrogen", how do you expect one to respond?

    Let me tell you - "Uh -no. That is just wrong, on a VERY basic level." :hand:
  12. The_YongGrand

    The_YongGrand Just Started

    What's "Alkaline Water"? I don't know of such thing.

    Our body can do the balancing of pH auto-magic-ally, thanks very much to Mother Nature. Personally, every person and every living thing in this world knows how to do it without realising it or knowing how it works.

    Water should be clean, and free of poisons and other dangerous foreign material. :whistle:

    Don't be duped by alkaline water!

    Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease is Nonsense.

    The writer quoted:
    That bolded ones are said in every A-level or college grade biology books too!

    The pH Myth Part 1

    Same too! These are in the basic Anatomy book as well! :whistle:
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  13. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

  14. The_YongGrand

    The_YongGrand Just Started

    That's from the semesters of Anatomy and Physiology and Biochemistry I took in college! Quite rusty for now since I'm not in that field, but I do admit it's pretty difficult! :thumb:
  15. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    At least you remembered it. :thumb: :thumb:
  16. The_YongGrand

    The_YongGrand Just Started

    Well, there's that Anatomy and Physiology book by Tortora & Derrickson I still keep. A good reference, however, it's really expensive. But worth the buy, because the college has discounts. :)
  17. simon285

    simon285 Newbie

    I use alkaline ionic water daily even during practice. Because it's very good

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