ED#111 : Checked Your CD-Rs Lately?

Discussion in 'Reviews & Articles' started by Adrian Wong, Jul 19, 2009.

  1. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    In the past, hard disk drives were small (in capacity) and costly. To make up for the lack of affordable storage, many turned to CD-Rs. As it became common to store backups and personal pictures, videos, etc. on CD-Rs, the lifespan of these discs became a concern.

    According to manufacturers, CD-Rs should last for decades. Some even quoted an upper limit of 120 years based on accelerated aging tests! That sure is a long time, isn't it? But will CD-Rs really last that long?


    Link : ED#111 : Checked Your CD-Rs Lately?
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2009
  2. zy

    zy zynine.com Staff Member

    yes, i try reducing the usage of CD/DVD now. i prefer to store on Hard Disk
  3. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Me too. So much more convenient. Haven't checked any of my DVDs yet though...
  4. Papercut

    Papercut Newbie

    Nice article, sent it to my mum for her to read. Her new pastime is converting all the old VHS tapes onto DVD and she mistakenly assumes that this means the data is now immortal.

    This issue also hits very close to home for me coz my original DVD copy of The Green Mile is now corrupted and it can't be more than a few years old. Ridiculous :evil:
  5. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Recordable disc medias are very unreliable. In fact, on average, they don't last more than 5 years, the reason is because most medias are very cheaply made. I have some good old Kodak gold disc, some of my earliest CDRs, and it's still working fine.
  6. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Damn, that sucks. Too bad there's no warranty against defective CDs or DVDs. :(
  7. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    I have those Kodak gold CD-Rs too. Unfortunately, two of them (from 2000) are partially corrupted.
  8. nateklomp

    nateklomp Newbie

    Fairly consistently, discs burned at lower speeds (regardless of perceived quality or cost) will last longer in storage. Assuming that's true, older discs are already at an advantage lifespan-wise: your pre-2002 CD writer was a lot slower (4x, 8x, 12x -- versus 32x, 48x, 52x) and would have introduced far fewer errors into the burn, ensuring a longer lifespan.
  9. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    That's possible although the type of dyes used in older CD-Rs are less stable. Even so, most manufacturers quoted decades as the lifespan of the CD-Rs in those days.
  10. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    BTW, some folks allege that the CD-Rs may not have been burned properly. The only way to do that would be to verify each CD-R after burning them.

    Well, that was what I did with these earlier batches of CD-Rs. I have never had a failed verification though, which is why I did away with the verification test thereafter.

    Also, CD rot was not a problem with these discs. There were no "holes" in the reflectivity of the media. Could be a dye failure but these discs have never seen daylight for most of the last 7-9 years.
  11. zy

    zy zynine.com Staff Member

    lemme see, CD & DVD, i've no problem with high quality ones, when i was in INTI, there are students selling high quality OEM DVDs. no printed name, but you can check the disc info for manufacturer. they last long compared to the cheap DVD. the cheap DVD, i didnt use them for 1-2 years and when i try to use them, burning failed LOL.

    and i also hear that burning CD/DVD at lower speed is better.

    Kodak long term storage :

    Temperature : 4 - 20C
    Relative Humidity : 20 - 50%
    source : General Recommendations for Long Term Storage Conditions
  12. dthanna

    dthanna Newbie

    Corporate Type

    As a person responsible for our corporate produced media, I've had to do some reasearch into this area - our discs got both clients and corporate records.

    We run six Rimage 7100n's

    Our media is this - MAM-A - 43165 & 43164 (Thermal White & Silver edge to edge)

    In the 10 years we've been using MAM-A's product I've never had a disc failure due to dye or reflective layer issues. We've had many bad discs due to physical damage (scratches, warping, etc).

    I've noticed several things to ensure long-lived media.
    1) Buy a high-quality media - and be careful of rip-offs! Many 'Name Brand' media are rebraned from another manufacturer. A little web-search can lead you to who makes what. Tayo Yuden and MAM-A are both high quality. I prefer MAM-A because it's locally produced, in the U.S.A., yes something hi-tech still made stateside, uses the more stable, but harder to record, Phthalocyanine dye. Check MAM-A's site on this. And has a great bunch of folks out in Colorado to work with!

    2) Use a high quality burner - both strong laser and good glass are key here. CDFreaks are great for reviews on this stuff. The same manufacturer can produce both a winners and loosers. We have a mixture from Optiarc and Plextor.

    3) Proper labeling! - Do not use Avery(R) or STOMPER(tm) type labels. I just had a set of discs that were bad due to them. Over time the labels will shrink, causing the disc geometry to take a cup-shape. While the Rimage Everest technology is a bit pricy for the average user, you can always sharpie on the inner-hub area - where there is no data. Be careful not to write on the wobble-track. The inner most data area.

    4) Storage - In good quality cases that do not out-gas, ON EDGE. Do not use paper envelopes, or at least use tyvek. - if you do, no windows (you have both plastic and glue that can be an issue.

    For personal use, harddrives are great, but we still back those up to CD-R and DVD-R and vault those.

    Now, I am not an expert in records retention, library management, or even one of the folks out at cdfreaks that goes for the deep dive into this material (but I do use, and thank you for the use, of the material that the folks at cdfreaks creates - thanks guys!), I do speak from experience. The kind that my job is on the line to either know the answer or find out the person that does.
  13. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    IMO, burning at lower speed improves the burning quality. That's a known fact. But I don't think that proves that it will last longer. I have tried that many times. It was working fine at first, but after awhile, my CD player couldn't read them anymore.
  14. zy

    zy zynine.com Staff Member

    yup, i remember buying blank printable oem Taiyo Yuden. much cheaper than the retails ones.
  15. zy

    zy zynine.com Staff Member

    use DVD identifier

    here is one of my oem DVD disc.

    sony d11 :thumb:

    Attached Files:

  16. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    I don't trust them anymore. Those Mitsubishi or Verbatims are crap.
  17. sg168

    sg168 Newbie

    I totally agreed with dthanna's professional comments, as I have found out a few years ago that the warpage is the main culprit causing some of my CDRs not to be read properly. Who would store CDRs in dry box environment in Malaysia (where humidity > 60%) ??

    Another main culprit for warpage is like you said, CD label. I don;t recommend using one, because the CD label (its made of paper) will shrink within 4-5 years in humid environment. Marker pen is still my main tool for labeling.

    Just one advice for all, if you go pasar malam and buy those cheap DVDs (purple dye) and have read error intermittently, if you are too lazy to go out and exchange, just tear away the label and the DVD should be ok for reading..... Becareful with your finger nails though.....
  18. Max_87

    Max_87 huehuehue

    I already gave up using CD/DVD-R to store my files for quite a long time, they are just too unreliable. I had experienced a few instances where the CD/DVD only lasted a few months before it became hard to read/files corrupted.
  19. zy

    zy zynine.com Staff Member

    my only use for DVD is reinstalling the OS. and maybe some softwares that are in CD/DVD form.

    hahahah nth else. most of my genuine software have been transfered to my HD.
  20. ZuePhok

    ZuePhok Just Started

    my pc has no optical drive.. for years!

    these days, it's all about images, images and images..

Share This Page