Just how educated are our leaders?

Discussion in 'Adrian Wong' started by Adrian Wong, May 3, 2006.

  1. fyire

    fyire Newbie

    You fail to get the point. Education while being important is not the holy grail type of one stop solution to all problems.

    Once more, you had failed to get the point. Had I disagreed with you in regards to what you mentioned about a lawyer running the health ministry?

    Is not the formulation of policies part of the administration duties that a government is responsible for? Which is why I had mentioned, even a Nobel prize winner may not be a suitable candidate if their sole interest is in the persuing of their own areas of research only.
     
  2. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Actually, I got your point. In fact, I agreed with you. And I never said it's the only way to judge the quality of any person, much less a politician.

    Nope. You didn't disagree. In fact, what I posted had nothing to do with the lawyer running the health ministry. :D

    Actually, administrative duties are mundane duties that go on, even without the formulation of a policy.

    It's not so simple to just say, "Okay, let's do this." Any policy must be carefully thought out to ensure it has the desired effect and is done for the right purpose, etc.

    I don't think ministers should be wasted on mundane administrative affairs. As it is, they can't even formulate logical policies. Let's not give them the opportunity to screw up office supplies too. :D
     
  3. fyire

    fyire Newbie

    Ok, let's rephrase here. By administration duties, my scope had involved the different levels, from policies at the top, to coordinating the garbage collection at the office right at the bottom. There are different levels of administration in any given organization.

    My point here is, that even highly qualified specialists in their own fields may be prone to saying "Ok, let's do this" rather than thinking carefully on things, because they're too focused on just certain things rather than the overall scope of responsibilty that they have to oversee.
     
  4. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Ministers are political appointees. In other words, they are elected representatives of the people who were given the task of creating policies for their departments. They come and go with different administrations.

    But their departments are populated by civil servants who remain working no matter who is appointed. These are the true administrators.

    If you want to lump policy making as administrative work, then we might as well just skip the minister and make policy making part of the job of the civil servants.

    Nah, the ministers are not there to hold the hands of the civil servants who know their job far better than political appointees. But the civil servants cannot be the ones who decide policy. Why? Because we did NOT elect them.

    So, our ministers are there as our representatives. They are there to create policies that would benefit our country and us, the citizens.

    Err.. Education does not mean you are more or less likely to think before you do. The same goes for your assertion that highly qualified people would be too focused on certain things.

    Because ministers will formulate policies that their departments have to carry out for the ENTIRE country, they need to KNOW what they are talking about.

    The best choice would be someone who has experience in the field, like a doctor for the Health Ministry or an economist for the Finance Ministry. Otherwise, he/she should be a well-educated person, with the ability to think logically, ethically and laterally.

    Of course, real life is often different from Utopia. Hence, we have a bunch of ministers and politicians who do not know what they are talking about (man-made problems as acts of God/nature), or spend their time tackling issues critical to the nation, like whether bow ties are acceptable in Parliament, or if divorcees are hornier than widows. :mrgreen:
     
  5. fyire

    fyire Newbie


    Hmmm.. basically just two things for me to say here:

    One: Amazing what the disagreement over the meaning of a single word can do. But check out here anyways:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=administration
    http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=administration&action=Search+OMD

    Administration does have different types and different levels you know.

    And Two: You had claimed that I am asserting that all highly qualified people will be too focused on certain things, take a look at what I had originally posted will you, when I had said:

    "even highly qualified specialists in their own fields may be prone to saying "Ok, let's do this" rather than thinking carefully on things, because they're too focused on just certain things rather than the overall scope of responsibilty that they have to oversee."

    Now, how does that translate to what you had claimed on what I had said, when it is rather clear that my statement is on that there will be those who will think in such a way, but nowhere was a claim that all will be as such.
     
  6. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Err.. I didn't dispute the meaning of the word administration or even the word administrator.

    Like I said, ministers are not there to hold the hands of the civil servants who have been doing their jobs for years. Ministers formulate policies and ensure they are carried out by the civil servants.

    The sky will probably fall on the day a minister actually goes down to the field and do something about it. :D

    There's no need for translation. It's a direct referral to your post. You did say that "even highly qualified specialists.... may be prone to saying "Ok, let's do this", blah blah... because they are too focused on just certain things...." :think:

    But frankly speaking, it doesn't matter what we think what should be done or not done. Things will go on as usual in Malaysia. :mrgreen:
     
  7. fyire

    fyire Newbie

    Actually, you did, when you had said that policies are not part of administration work.

    Which also had me wondering, how did you come up with the reasoning about ministers doing clerical work when I had mentioned about administration anyways?

    Yeah, I did say that, but what I'm asking is, so how did that phrase get you to think that I'm asserting that all will be as such, instead of the there will be as such as was intended?
     
  8. uputra81

    uputra81 Newbie


    Hi there people, please get your facts right before you post anything, here are some of the profiles of our leaders:
    http://www.pemudaumno.org.my/modules.php?name=Ketua - hishamudin
    http://www.pemudaumno.org.my/modules.php?name=NaibKetua - khairy
    click on Prime Minister and also click on profile,awards of PM:
    http://www.pmo.gov.my/website/webdb.nsf/pmoenglish?openframeset - pak lah
    I'm not interested to find the others anymore because this shows that the comparison is full of bull..
    Please don't spread inaccurate information and create confusion on the internet. It is best that you find all of those ministers education background first, then you can compare each of them. Well, Malaysians are still Malaysians.. always like to jump into conclusions before getting the right facts. Thats the REAL shame...
     
  9. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    I've found the Pak Lah, and it is correct according to the site you have given.
     
  10. Falcone

    Falcone Official Mascot Creator


    Hmmmn looks like someone didn't even check wat he is saying......

    Plus it's easy to get Honours, but to get 1st class honours that's tuff.....very tuff, to get 1st class honours at Cambridge University that's sure aint an easy feat.

    PS: Damn! The site's ugly.....
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2006
  11. uputra81

    uputra81 Newbie

    I think you don't understand, how can you make a comparison on 1 side, and don't know the other side? such as comparing a degree with an unknown education??
    what is this? you don't have a clue what he has.. maybe spm, maybe degree, or maybe masters?
    even a guy without any education could see that..
    clearly this is one sided..
    please try to find out all the 'unknown educations' first.. then compare...then post this comparison...
    I'm not questioning about the comparison between 1st class and honours.. that isn't my point here...
     
  12. uputra81

    uputra81 Newbie

    no.. it is not accurate.. information that is inaccurate is considered wrong. the comparison says only 'Bachelor of Arts Honours' but the accurate info is 'Bachelor of Arts (Honours)in Islamic Studies'..

    Clearly that you people like to take unknown information from the internet without doing any further findings first.. its a REAL shame..
     
  13. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, actually I do know it's BA in Islamic Studies. And yes, I've done some research on some of them. And yes, I did ignore those that were stated as 'unknown'. And yes, you are making assumptions that we were making assumptions. Shame on you. :mrgreen:
     
  14. zy

    zy zynine.com Staff Member

    lolz... why are you guys fighting ? :haha: ..

    i dun really care how high their education .. all i know is they will still screw up something .. lolz...
     
  15. PsYkHoTiK

    PsYkHoTiK Admin nerd

    Yea, I think it's already been established that the qualifications one posses doesn't reflect on levels of intelligence. Just look at our President.... :rolleyes:

    So no need for all this trivia... :p
     
  16. Mad1

    Mad1 <b>Old Toad</b>

    With just 3 post, uputra81 is already -12....:mrgreen:

    Where ever you go the same thing always happen to "Party Pembangkang":haha: :haha:

    Gang Bang...:p
     
  17. Falcone

    Falcone Official Mascot Creator

    Yup education dun mean a thing, but it does shows the level of intelligence of one politician. But the fact is a country which almost 500 times smaller the Malaysia but still out performs almost 3 times in terms of GDP per capita. A country which has virtually no natural resources, solely relying on trade to sustain has achieved to this within 50 years, say it all.

    And fact also, for minister here to screw up so badly and publicly humiliated and still in offices say it all.

    Heck I wouldn't even want to go to war with Singapore, their military expenditure is almost 3 times as much as us. :faint: :faint: :faint:
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2006
  18. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    That guy's an "anomaly". :haha: :haha: :haha:

    Seriously, I do agree that education isn't everything. It is not a super-accurate gauge of one's intelligence.

    And more importantly, politicians certainly do not need much intelligence. Just look at our "honourable" Ministers and Member of Parliaments. Or Bush, for that matter! :haha: :haha:

    But I think it's pretty telling that our country's politicians do not seem to care much about education. I certainly think it's important for any leader to educate himself the best he/she can.

    Education's important not just for the degree, but to broaden one's mind, train it to think. Perhaps that's the reason why our government is trying to push out more undeserving graduates than increasing the QUALITY of education.

    Thanks for the links, uputra81. I will update the list with the extra information.

    However, there's really no need to be so defensive. Criticism is really the first step to improving oneself. Do you really think our politicians are flawless models of everything good in Mankind?

    Seriously, look at the crap that's being spewed in our Parliament. Our leaders have no respect for the Constitution, the people they represent, or even their fellow MPs. They just do and say whatever they like.

    But let's not divert from the topic at hand. No matter what, there's obviously a distinct difference in the level of education when we compare our leaders with Singaporean leaders. What that means for us, the rakyat (citizens).. is up for debate. LOL!
     

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