My Experience As A House Officer

Discussion in 'Adrian Wong' started by Adrian Wong, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. orangutan

    orangutan Newbie

    A winner always has a goal,
    A winner says, it may be difficult, but its possible !
    All the best , Adrian.
  2. Jet

    Jet Just Started

    Well, in that case..
    I can only hope that you have chosen the right path.. :pray:
    All the best Adrian. :D
  3. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Thanks, orangutan and Jet! :beer:
  4. sumurai

    sumurai Newbie

    Do what you love doing! :thumb: life is too short to spend most of our time doing what we doesn't like and later grumble to friends and family. Its good to take countable risk early or else you can't afford to take it later :thumb: good luck in your journey! :beer:
  5. siddiq

    siddiq Newbie

    all the best boss. but i found it wasting the years. btw, go for what you wanna do. :thumb: :beer: :arp:
  6. peaz

    peaz ARP Webmaster Staff Member

    Adrian IS choosing is right path. It may be wrong for others but it sure is damn right for him :)

    Go Adrian, not many even dare to dream. But here you are working and living it! :thumb:
  7. djspinnet

    djspinnet Newbie

    Here's to you, Adrian :) And old piece, but a good piece nonetheless..


    Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

    Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

    Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.

    Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

    Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

    You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

    Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.​
  8. 331

    331 Newbie

    Not to put you down Adrian, but you should at least finish your 20 months as an House Officer, get certifed as a doctor and then quit if you wish. (Is that what it takes to get the title of a Doctor?)

    No point in doing something nearly 90% and then quiting. A sight for sore eyes like those abandoned construction projects. It could become a bad habit you know... ;)

    Anyway, regardless of your final choice I wish you luck in your future endeavors. :thumb:
  9. GarPhreak

    GarPhreak Newbie

    That's your opinion. Everyone's entitled to their own, but that doesn't mean that they are all right and everyone else is all wrong.

    Part of the reason he's quitting in the first place is the bad attitude and working conditions/hours in the workplace. Why would he want to endure all that for 20 months just to quit at the end? He might as well not quit at all! :eh: :haha:
  10. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Woah.. Still a lot of feedback! Thanks, everyone! :thumb:

    Well, it would be a waste if I don't continue on this path. However, this path cannot end 20 months later. If I want a career in medicine, I must complete the entire 4 years.

    Yes, at the end of that 20 months, I will receive permanent registration (right now, I'm only temporarily registered). But I cannot practice in Malaysia unless I serve the government for at least 4 years.

    If I do not even wish to have a career in medicine, why waste 4 years in government service? Even if I just finish 20 months, what's the point? :think:

    I wish I can be that patient. It would, of course, be safer to complete all four years and then work in the private sector. But that's not something I want.

    I want more than a safe job - I want a job that makes me eager to stay up late at night and wake up early in the morning. I want something that ignites my passion. Sad to say, medicine does not. :wall:
  11. 331

    331 Newbie

    Is it possible outside of Malaysia?
  12. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    It depends on the country. Most likely I will have to work as an intern for at least a year.
  13. 331

    331 Newbie

    I guess you have answered your own question. :p

    Why not just take 20 months of your life to finish just this and get on with your life? It could be important, if you change your mind later.

    A simple analogy would be like a driving license. What is the point of learning to drive but not getting a license? With a license you still have a choice whether to drive or not.

    Besides that, I don't think quitting now will look good on your resume. I hope that you will put these into consideration.

    Finally, is your GF ok with this? I don't want you ending up like the character in An Officer and a Gentleman. :haha:
  14. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Yes, I did. That's why I chose not to do the 4 year programme. :)

    It sounds simple to just do 20 months and get permanently registered. But that's 20 months down the drain if I do not continue and finish off the 4 years government service. And spending 4 years is not something I want to do.

    That analogy is not quite so accurate. You are assuming I want to drive. But what if I don't like to drive? Then there wouldn't be much point in getting a license, would there? ;)

    Well, the thing is I really don't have anything to prove to anyone. I don't really care how bad my resume looks, as long as I'm doing what I like. For me, job satisfaction is more important than career advancement. In other words, I would like to enjoy the ride, instead of worrying about how high I can go.

    My girlfriend? Well, she knows no one can talk me out of anything that I put my mind to. But she does support whatever I do. :mrgreen:
  15. diabolik

    diabolik Newbie

    I'm not much into medical profesion myself, but I'd seen relative that is working in tat area. He grad from Govern U, that's why I think he is luckier than you because he doesn't need to serve the 20 months "Jail". In the initial first 1-2 years, he did complaint alot about the low wages,benefits,working condition, etc while serving the 3 years in Government U.

    After a while, he just quit complaining and focus to do what he wanted to do in the medical profesion. He remembered why he wanted to join medical profession, not because of family's influence, not because of peer's influence, not because of the big $$$$ that are possible in the future, simply because he wanna help people that are suffering, that's all.

    While respecting your decision, (I'm trained to challenge other's decision unfortunately...) maybe your decision was made based on a prick that doesn't know how to treat others as Human? There are indeed still alot of doctors out there that shows respect to their students, so this prick that u had met might be a rare bad seed, but this bad seed might had influenced you to make an unsound decision at this stage of life?

    Doctor's life was never easy primary due to the inbalance in the doctor:patient ratio in Malaysia, that's why they are Noble. However, there are in fact alot of jobs out there that has worst benefits than the one you are entitled earlier as a HO, and alot of people are still struggling on those jobs.

    Alot of Malaysian still get less than 14 days of Annual Leave per year, and most people need to apply their leave 14 days in advance, and their leave can be cancelled should the need arised. Most companies doesn't pay OT to ppl that work until 1am in the morning just to get things done. It all depends on how you view it.

    Some ppl take it positively and use that opportunity to train themself and earn experience out of it, while some other would calculate the benefits vs workload, and then decided to quit. Both have their viewpoint in this area, and no one is able to judge who's right and who's wrong... It is until the end, when we turn back and think about it, then only we will be able to see if we had regreted any of our decisions in our life or not.

    Anyway, as I said earlier, I'm not trying to judge your decision nor challenge your decision, I'm merely trying to tell you the perks and benefits that most Uni Grads ppl are still struggling with atm. Hope that helps. Cheers.
  16. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    Hello diabolik,

    Actually, all graduates MUST undergo 20 months of housemanship. There is no exception, not even for graduates of local universities.

    Right now, the total time one must serve is 4 years. No exceptions.

    Actually, my decision was not decided by the actions of some pricks in the profession. As a medical student here in Melaka GH, I have already seen my share of egomaniacs. Of course, working closely with them only "enhanced" my experience. :haha:

    No... As I've mentioned time and time again, my decision is based on far more than the attitudes of people for whom I have virtually no respect. I'll repeat them again... at the risk of other people here getting nauseous! :haha:

    1. I have many other dreams to pursue. Working as a doctor will mean delaying my pursuits by at least 1-4 years, if not forever. Inertia is always a danger.

    2. I really do not like the restrictive life of a doctor. If I work as a doctor, I will not have the freedom to do anything else. As someone who enjoys doing several things at the same time, this is really quite unacceptable.

    3. I aspire to help people but I also realize that I can help people in other ways, not necessarily only via medicine.

    4. I'm not intelligent enough to pursue two interests simultaneously. If I cannot devote myself to medicine, then I really should not dabble in it - it's not fair to my patients.

    5. The degree of work overload I've seen in Melaka GH is unhealthy not only to the doctor but also his patients. They are pushing us to the point that we become dangerous to our patients. That's unacceptable, irrespective of how understaffed we may be. :hand:

    6. Quitting as abruptly as I have will send a message to the people in Melaka GH. The reason why many people bully house officers is because they think we have no choice but to put up with the nonsense. They feel they have the upper hand because we need them more than they need us. Not so. I have a choice, I don't need them - I quit.

    And I have informed the hospital management of the reasons why I'm quitting... as well as the appalling treatment and policies of the department. Hopefully, my quitting will result in someone finally doing something about the farce we call housemanship.

    7. Long before I joined government service, I have already been ruminating over my future. To be honest, I never saw myself in government service or running my own private practice. Sooner or later, my heart tells me I MUST quit and do what I love doing best - write. :thumb:

    As for annual leave, that's not the reason why I quit. Also, you must remember that we have to work all 365 days of the year, even including weekends and public holidays! No one else in government service or private practice has to do this.

    So, while other people may get only 14 days of annual leave, let's not forget they are getting at least Sundays off to rest. That's 52 days of work for us. And what about public holidays? We not only have to work a full day on public holidays, we also do not get special pay. So, all in all, it's a VERY raw deal. :hand:

    But that's still okay. We are not in the business of extorting money from the government or the people. We are sacrificing our time and money so that we can help people. But how can we help if we are too tired to think properly?

    With no time to rest or sleep, how efficient or good do you think we can be? Remember, we are talking about lives here, not some product that can be rejected and/or repaired. This is completely unacceptable. :hand:

    Anyway, IMHO, there's little point in looking back and regretting anything. Once you make up your mind, burn your bridges and forge ahead! CHAAAAAAARGE!!!:thumb:
  17. 331

    331 Newbie

    burn your bridges? That is too extreme. :shock:

    That's opposite of the idiom "Don't burn your bridges."
    Just remember that friends does not necessarily remain friends for life and the same goes for enemies.

    One more thing tough guy, just look where you charge or you just might fall into a bottomless pit. :mrgreen:

    Thanks for taking time sharing your views.

    Can you please elaborate more on after serving the 20 months as a House Officer?

    Let's say that John Doe has finished serving as a House Officer for twenty months and has his name permanently registered as a doctor. However, he refuse to serve another 4 years in a Malaysian Government hospital.

    Simply put, what will become of John Doe for his refusal?
    Is he allowed to find work outside Malaysia or can the 4 years service be deferred / delayed? Wll his name be struck off the register after a certain period of time? Face disiplinary charges? Fined? Jailed? Sent to Tanjung Rambutan or Tampoi until he agrees to serve the 4 years? :mrgreen:
    1 person likes this.
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Newbie

    Adrian, you will find that egomaniacs exist in all fields, right up to the medical profession and right down to the street sweeper. Whichever field you step in, you will find that there's going to be some a**hole trying to stab you in the back or use you to step on.

    Haven't you realized? You need not have to respect the person; you only need to respect the chair he sits on. Do you think that I respect my superior? No. I respect the position he sits on. So when he issues me a directive, I have to follow it, because of the seat he occupies. Never consider your superior on a personal level, and never take his/her actions on a personal level -- even when it's meant to be.

    Have you considered that your resignation may not be fair to others, namely those whom you love? For example, those who have saved all their lives to put you through medicine school?

    Adrian, have you seen how soldiers train? Have you seen how they are pushed to their physical and emotional limits? And yet, even having being pushed to their physical and emotional limits, they are trained to bear arms to defend their country. They have been pushed to a point where they can be considered dangerous to those they promise to protect, but yet, they prevail. Why? Sheer discipline, commitment and determination.

    Do you think the resignation of one houseman will make a difference? Do you think others will follow? Will they all say, "Let's follow Adrian's example and quit en masse." Do you think the whole medical system will be revamped to make the training of housemen more comfortable? Do you think your superiors will treat your colleagues any better just because one houseman, no matter how promising he may be, has resigned? The answer simply is NO. You are replaceable. Everyone is. How many thousands are waiting to fill your position? As for your resignation, they will think for a moment, and then decide that this houseman probably thought he was too good for the whole medical system in Malaysia and left. In conclusion, they would say, "Good riddance to bad rubbish", and whatever ill activities they have been conduction will continue. If you really think that you can make a difference from your resignation, you're sadly mistaken. Had you wish to make a difference, you would be in a better position to do so being inside the medical profession rather than being on the outside.

    If you had no desire to become a doctor, or to complete your medical studies, then it was a waste of the awaken needs of the many for you to pursue this field. It was a waste of your time, your parents' money and everyone's hard work. How much has been spent on your studies? How many have failed to secure a seat in medical studies despite their excellent exam results (e.g., 13 A1s, etc.)?

    My dear Adrian, you have not done your research well enough. As a swimming coach, I work 365 days of the year as well (check my website if you don't believe me). For me, Mondays may be considered an off-day, but on Mondays, I report to MSN and conduct training sessions for the elite squad just as I do on any other day. What's worse in my deal is that I don't have any so-called off days. Sure, I don't work from 9 AM to 5 PM, but then again, when the team goes outstation, I work from 12 AM to 11:59 PM.

    How are you sacrificing your money to help others? That money is being used to secure you a medical degree. I don't think unlimited altruism is a case in this matter.

    Furthermore, as for people being to tired to think properly to help people, well, soldiers manage this, and they're in the business of taking lives and defending the nation. Yet, despite their lack of efficiency, we're trusting them with the right to bear arms, much like how we are trusting doctors with the right to carry syringes and have access to all sorts of drugs.

    I agree with you that there's no point looking back. But the part about burning bridges, that I don't agree. I've personally left the employment of many firms before, and I've learned that the world is a small place. Malaysia is even smaller. Sooner or later, you'll come across someone whose toes you've trotten on. And when that happens, you'll wish you hadn't burned all your bridges. Leave if you must, by all means, bBut leave amicably.

    I'm sorry for coming down so hard on you on this. I sincerely apoligize. Although I support your decision to pursue your dreams, I feel that there are some issues that you need to understand. As I've mentioned before, I accept and support your decision. What's done is done. Likewise, what's decided is decided. So, there's no turning back from there.

    Personally, I come from a very poor family and never had the luxury of even considering medicine as a career. It saddens me how someone can give up a career so costly and promising -- something others would kill for -- by using the path of least resistance.

    But I sincerely hope that you will take my words into consideration the next time you encounter something you disagree with in the system that you work for. The needs of others come into play too -- your parents, your partner, etc.

    Do what you wish to do. Pursue and fulfill your dreams as I have, but make sure you know what your dreams are and choose the paths to take carefully.

    Good luck, and all the best to you, Adrian. :thumb:
  19. Adrian Wong

    Adrian Wong Da Boss Staff Member

    The trouble with NOT burning your bridges is that you tend to keep looking behind... just to make sure those bridges are still there. That keeps you from forging ahead.

    That's why sometimes it's good to burn one's bridges. Of course, it should be with good cause - if the risks are acceptable. Not for a "suicide mission". :haha:

    Ahhh! Definitely. It's a big risk, I know. But I have to go forth and do my best. :pray:

    John Doe can actually work overseas even without being registered. All he has to do is work as an intern for at least one year (depending on the country and hospital).

    If he quits after getting permanently registered, he cannot practice in Malaysia. He can do what he wants... but he cannot practice privately until he completes four years of government service.

    No, he won't be fined/jailed/punished for quitting after 1 year or 20 months or at any time. But he has to give them one month notice before quitting. And he is not allowed to practice in Malaysia.
  20. Dashken

    Dashken Administrator!

    Well, from the looks of it, I think most of you will have the same thinking for this example. Example, if I have a gf and we have been together for the past 8-9 years and suddenly we think we are not compatible or don't hit it anymore. It's really the end for both of us and we know it. But do you think we should continue to stay together and get married because we have been together for 8-9 years and if we break up now, we would have wasted those 8-9 years? :think:

    So, you won't break up because of the 8-9 years although you know that this relationship is not going anywhere already?

    IMHO, sometimes we can't really rate something through how much money we have spent and how much time we have wasted... but what we have learned for the past 8-9 years (in the above example). That's the important thing, no?

    I think this example can be roughly applied to Adrian's situation. :think:

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