It's sad to see #MH370 get politicized. There are conspiracy theories that it was brought down to divert attention from Anwar Ibrahim's sodomy case, or the upcoming #Kajang by-election. Heck, some people are even wondering about Captain Zaharie Shah's political affliations. Now, we have people hammering the Malaysian government, and by extension, the Royal Malaysian Navy, for not sending the Scorpene submarines to scour the ocean floor for the wreckage. Well, I don't want to offend the real men and women in uniform by calling myself a military expert but even I know it is STUPID to send the Scorpene submarines for a SAR (Search And Rescue) mission. Consider these points : 1. The Scorpene is an attack submarine which has very limited SAR capabilities. 2. Yes, it can detect the pinging of the black box beacon but so can practically any ship with passive sonar capabilities. 3. Its active sonar isn't very helpful in differentiating wreckage on the seabed, and will likely interfere with the attempts of nearby ships to listen for the beacon. 4. The Scorpene isn't very fast. It does 20 knots (37 km/h) at full speed. Ships can go much faster. Ships also do not need to surface to recharge their batteries. 5. Ships carry helicopters that (together with long-range planes like the P-3C Orion) greatly extend the areas that can be searched. More importantly, they can VISUALLY LOOK for surface debris and oil slicks. 6. Ships can also deploy RHIBs to take a closer look at surface debris, or collect them. Ships can retrieve surface debris and take and test water samples. The Scorpenes cannot do that. 7. The Scorpenes are based in Sepanggar, near Kota Kinabalu, Sabah. Even at maximum speed, it would take them AT LEAST 36 hours to reach the search area. Why the heck do we want to wait so long??? It would also be stupid to have them rush to the area at full speed. Attack submarines never use their full power because it's too noisy. We are not at war, but everyone who can hear would be able to record and monitor their noise signatures which would help to detect them in times of war. We would be sacrificing our national security for no good reason. Going at full speed also quickly depletes their batteries. They would have to keep resurfacing to recharge, because they are diesel-electric submarines, not nuclear submarines. If they head to the search area at a slower speed, say 8 knots (15 km/h), they would need at least 7 days to traverse the South China Sea. 8. The US Navy has several submarines in the area, but even they are not sending any submarines. Instead, they sent an Arleigh Burke destroyer and a P-3C Orion. Even if Singapore has the Scorpene and MH370 was an SIA flight, they would NOT have sent the Scorpene. It is practically useless in SAR missions. Incidentally, Singapore has several submarines of their own, and they chose not to send any. Seriously, STOP asking why the Scorpenes aren't going to look for MH370. It's just going to make you look stupid, especially if you are a politician trying to score points. Trust me when I say that this Scorpene SAR mission BS is a dead-end with plenty of potholes to break one's legs in. Do not go there. ----------------- Here's a statement from the Chief of Navy himself!
This was originally posted in Facebook and collected more than 380 shares and 300 likes. There were also over 300 comments! As it is notoriously difficult to search for old posts in Facebook, I've decided to archive the many comments because they are both entertaining and educational. Enjoy.
Julz Abt II may I share this? Adrian Wong Julz Abt II : Please go ahead. Danny Gnaniah Really man, the number of imbeciles out there....kepala pening...been doing this 'educating' for awhile now....I wanna share this too Adrian Wong Danny Gnaniah : Please go ahead. Everyone is free to share this. Adrian Wong Just added a point about why the Scorpenes shouldn't be rushing to the area at full speed. Ken KW Then, you are telling S'pore is a moron to send the submarine there!!?? Ken KW What expertise are you in???? Philippe Lai Quo Jenn ·singapore is sending 'this type' of submarine. Ken KW As long as it is a submarine. Adrian Wong Ken KW : As I said, I'm not an expert, but at least I read up. If you read up yourself, you would have noted that Singapore did not actually send a submarine but a "submarine rescue vessel" - the MV Swift Rescue. See the picture on the left? That's the SHIP they are sending. It has a submersible craft which is used to rescue submarines but it's not a "submarine". Ivan Ng Couldn't agree more. We may not be BN supporters but making baseless assumptions & accusations will us look like bigger arses. I'm so sharing this. Ken KW What is wrong to send a submarine?? Ken KW It would be easier to see the wreckage if it is under the sea, right?? Common sense!! Philippe Lai Quo Jenn then, u think send in a BIG battle submarine to lepak there is a good idea? Adrian Wong Ken KW : Why would you want to send a submarine? Just because you have it? The US, Australia, China and Vietnam also have submarines but none of them sent submarines. Doesn't it tell you just how useless submarines are in SAR missions? Adrian Wong Ken KW : Have you seen an attack submarine before? They do NOT have viewing windows... and it's dark in the depths of the ocean. You can't really see much there unless you have light, and no, attack submarines do not have spotlights to point at the seabed. Ken KW You mean Malaysia bought it to attack and cannot be used for other purpose?? Ken KW What is the chances to attack?? Which country?? Ken KW Which country can Malaysia attacks???? Brian Chong Common sense = read up before posting comments that make you look foolish. Darren Raphael Yeoh It seems you are completely missing the point Brian Chong Aiihhh seeing that the one who mentioned common sense doesn't seem to have common sense. I put it this way, Scorpene - military knife like those Rambo use. MV Swift - incision knife like those surgeons use. Both are blades, both can cut .......... BUT do you use incision knife to kill a beast while use a military knife to conduct surgery? Monica Voon I am dumbfounded at the idiocy of many people commenting online. I'd really like to punch them in the face. Philippe Lai Quo Jenn common sense is not so common after all. *facepalm* Adrian Wong Ken KW : It is an "attack" submarine, that is specifically designed to attack ships and other submarines. Sure, if you really want to, you can use it to host birthday parties, but why would you want to do that? Just because you can? I'm not here to argue with you over the logic of buying these submarines. I personally think we have better things to purchase than these submarines. But that doesn't mean we MUST send them to do SAR simply because we already purchased them. Brian Chong Attack Sub is just the classification of the sub's purpose. It's used for attack / defense / recon but SAR not part of its portfolio. Ken KW At least, it is able to detect. Otherwise, how to attack?? Ken KW Question is if we use more machinery to search, wouldn'd it be good than to keep them??? Ken KW You already bought them with billions and killed a Mongolian girl over the deal so what is wrong to use it for better purpose?? Ken KW How many countries have such submarine?? Ken KW Why must they use it for Malaysia?? Adrian Wong Ken KW : As I said, just because you paid billions for it doesn't mean it should be used for SAR. It's short, so on the surface, it cannot see far. And it's actually MUCH slower on the surface than underwater. Underwater, it can listen for the beacon but it's not going to do it better than the ships, which can also move faster. Like I said, you can use it to detect the beacon, but other than that, it's pretty useless for SAR. If they send it, it would be logical to have them come over at a slow speed, because their batteries cannot last long at full speed and they have to regularly surface to recharge. Just coming over to the search area will probably take 72 hours. Even if they started yesterday, they wouldn't reach the area until tomorrow. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you why they must purchase the Scorpenes. I already told you I don't think they should have spent the money buying the Scorpenes. My purpose here is to EDUCATE everyone about the reasons why the Scorpenes would not be very useful in the MH370 SAR mission. Ken KW Thank you for your time )
Adrian Wong Just edited the post to add a few more points. Jimmy Chuah I do agreed with Adrian Wong. Not everything should be politised. If we don't know the facts, don't pandai-pandai talk like you are an expert. Why don't instead of acting pandai or blaming who is right or who is wrong, why don't we use our energy to support those in need. A simple prayer is good enough rather then barking here & there. Adrian Wong There's a video going around showing relatives of a guy ringing his mobile phone... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=597778596982847&set=a.182915768469134.42121.100002521355176 Jyn Low Tah Zen whatever it this...the god damn submarine is not functional... so forget it...lol. fail Mummy Juls Scorpene is for search and destroy. Not search and rescue. Mummy Juls Who said its not functioning? Better check your facts. Adrian Sikawah Thank you Adrian Wong for the updates.. Ranen Bhattacharyya Thanks Adrian Wong. Wish the govt too this trouble to explain, as clear as you did. CK Cheekang Tan Very enlightening adrian wong. At least you put a good perspective to this piece of equipment for your average Malaysian joes and janes. Though I need to add that we shud cut these joes and janes some slacks when it comes to them whining abt why scorpene shud be sent for SAR. The trust level with government's explanations are extremely low at this moment so all our info are from various sources, some reliable some not. Yours would be deemed super excellent by our standards. The very fact that we did overpay dearly for a used sub which was not fully 'packaged' and had cooling and other problems does make them say spiteful things. Infact maybe we shud have bought one new attack sub and one new SAR sub with same or less amount of money. Nevertheless I agree that for politicians to score points it is not tolerable lar. Save and except I would also give anwar a teeny weeny leeway at this moment by not 'hantaming' him (not condoning) if he tries to use scorpene for airtime .. cos he is going to jail very soon for the 2nd time. We all know that oppositions in Malaysia are very sad lots. That make them a little screwed at the top sometimes. Just wanna be fair on both sides. Thanks adrian wong for the piece written above. We know a little better now. Keep our prayers going for MH370 Faryn Yong And what is/are Malaysia sending btw? Kumar Arunasalam Thanks Adrian El Zee Faryn, Royal Malaysian Air Force dispatched a CASA/IPTN CN-235 transport aircraft, a Beechcraft Super King Air B200T aircraft, four Lockheed C-130 Hercules military transport aircraft, two Bombardier Global Express aircraft, two Agusta A109 helicopters, and four Eurocopter EC725 long-range tactical transport helicopters. Six Royal Malaysian Navy vessels have also been dispatched, in addition to three Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency vessels to search the waters off its east coast in the South China Sea. Ahmad Arieff Atan TF Ng Hakim Azman Dumfuks evrywhere. Zombified by silly fb post from silly fb pages. Li Qing But obviously our gomen is not doing/responding good at all ths time. N bcoz of tht I believe malaysia is (again) wellknown of the poor risk management now. Bryan Soh Did you know for sure or just simply assume the Scorpenes are CURRENTLY in Sepanggar? Based in and currently in are very different. Yeen Fei Lim Bryan Soh so you have info that they are nearer to the SAR location... and location is not the key here, send more surface vessel will be more appropriate than expensive toy that does nothing but listening on passive sonar ? Grow some brain... Adrian Wong Bryan Soh : No one should know where the submarines are now. That would defeat the purpose of having submarines in the first place. I definitely agree with you that being based in Sepanggar is very different from being currently in Sepanggar. However, does anyone know where they are? They could be in Sepanggar or patrolling the East Coast of Sabah. Or they could be patrolling the West Coast of Borneo, along Sabah and Sarawak. In the best case scenario, they could be patrolling the East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia, right there at the site. However, in the absence of information, we can only surmise that if they are still in Sepanggar. After all, they are diesel-electric Bryan Soh What I wanna point out is that a few points here will be invalid if it's not in Sabah. Adrian Wong Bryan Soh : The only point that would be invalid is my estimate that it would take them 36 hours to get from Sepanggar to the site. And that's assuming the submarines are not in Sepanggar, which we don't know for sure. Do let me know which other point would be invalidated by not knowing the precise location of the Scorpenes? Jarod 재로드 The actual location must not be known. Is like if we exposed our sub's location, it is easily defeated by our enemy. Yeen Fei Lim Bryan Soh yes you may proved Adrian Wong wrong about the time required to travel to SAR location but it should not be forgotten that why we are using an inappropriate equipment for a task that its not designed for ? Its probably far more efficient if we fly those experienced navy diver and recruit fishing boats for SAR. Yeen Fei Lim Adrian Wong thanks for having patience to educate these keyboard warriors (I myself would not able to do it better). I always feel sad about our nation, not only from what the political parties do, but from the citizen that are irrational and lack of analytic minds (thus easily manipulated by politicians). Mohammad Adib ive been keeping it to myself. finally someone has some knowledge rather than just accusing the gov. maybe were x bn supporters that doesnt mean everythin they do is wrong. scorpene being used in sar is like u using lamborghini going offroad. yes it is a car. but is it practical? do some research b4 saying anythin or u look just like the bn ppl u hate so much. btw, scorpene can submerge do read some military page to know more rather reading political page to know more about it. mohon share this post. tq. Adrian Wong Mohammad Adib : Please feel free to share this post. No matter which side of the political divide we stand, it's important to keep to the facts.
Key Sy We get stupid people trying to politicize this. These people are so focused on taking political power they forget and have become inhuman and infeeling. Enough la. Give this a break Adrian Wong Yeen Fei Lim : My pleasure. Adrian Wong Key Sy : I think many just forget that the RMN serves the nation, and they think it's an extension of the political party that currently runs the government. Of course, it's not. The RMN is a professional service which will serve the government of the day, irrespective of which political party is at the helm. We should give our boys and girls in uniform some credit. The politicians who make the decisions may not know what the hell they are doing, but I trust our boys and girls in uniform to do their jobs no matter what the public opinion is like. Menh Chooi Adrian Wong, sir. MAy I say that you have great patience to entertain the questions which I think you shouldn't have at all? My hat off to you, sir Bryan Soh I totally agreed on rescue vessels are better and faster than The Scorpenes. However, I think we don't have to make a Either-Or decision. Both submarine and ships can be deployed at the same time if necessary to make the search more thorough. Therefore, point 1-6 aren't very strong to not deploy The Scorpenes. Well, I have no comment and won't doubt it if it's due to military reasons that The Scorpenes cannot be deployed but our acting Transport Minister mentioned The Scorpenes is not deployed because it's not built for SAR which I think is not good enough to be accepted at this critical moment. Adrian Wong Thanks, Menh Chooi Fann Chong Thanks for your sharing Teck Wee The 1 statement it already cross my mind... An attack submarine unable to go fast speed so if ppl attack waiting to die only right...[}}#>^^***££€<~ Adrian Wong Bryan Soh : See, that's the thing - submarines like the Scorpene do NOT add any benefit to the equation. They are no more effective than the ships, and in fact, probably a lot less effective due to the reasons mentioned above. If I'm not mistaken, they used a submarine to look for Air France Flight 447, but if I recall correctly, that was because the sea at the crash site was very deep and they already know where it crashed. The area in which the MH370 is presumed to have "landed" is shallow - just 80-100 m in depth. More importantly, no one knows where it landed. Using a submarine would greatly extend the time it takes to locate the aircraft. So I guess that's also a reason why submarines aren't being deployed in the search. Adrian Wong Teck Wee : Attack submarines can go fast, but they normally do that only in evasive manoeuvres because it's noisy and gives away their position. Submarines keep safe by being QUIET, not fast. Tan C Siang Thanks Adrian Wong for clarifying things up. I, for one, too misunderstood on this submarine part and now I fully understand. But 1 thing I can't stand and I believed others may to is the incompetence from our gov and MAS in handling this crisis. They are too slow in responding and in helping the family members/relatives of those on-board. Even other countries are lamenting that. Sigh~ Adrian Wong Tan C Siang : Well, if you look at it from their POV, the missing aircraft puts them in a very difficult position. It's still MISSING, so they cannot confirm that it crashed or got hijacked. That's why news agencies are very careful about not saying it crashed or that people have died. Last night, a CNN reported slipped and said that 239 people died. She had to correct it in a later segment. Until they have confirmation that the flight has crashed, it would be foolish legally and ethically to tell the family members that is what happened, because they don't know that. They are not only opening themselves up for ridicule, they are also exposing themselves to a certainty of a lawsuit for false representation later on. Everyone wants information, but unfortunately, that is the one thing they cannot give. AFAIK, MAS has not only provided a hotel for family members to gather here in Putrajaya and in Beijing but they also flew the Chinese family members over here in a flight this morning. We may not like the current government but this really has nothing to do with them per se. It's a tragedy that is out of their control, and all they can do now is talk while the guys and girls out there on the ocean find MH370, and the investigators trace the leads on the ground. Tan C Siang Well, I truly agree with what you said. I wouldn't want this to be politicized like how some members of the public are doing. This is a serious crisis which happened for the first time in our country (can't remember the previous airplane crashed as I wasn't born yet). All I hope for is for MAS and our gov to come clean and let the truth out without hiding anything from the public if they found out anything at all. That will do justice to everyone involved. Bryan Soh "submarines like the Scorpene do NOT add any benefit to the equation." is a bold assumption that I don't dare to make as I'm not an expert in this field. Too many assumptions and speculations on FB, I'll wait for the experts' explanation on this topic. Adrian Wong I think it's out of their hands, and the truth will be revealed.. eventually. Once the aircraft is found, the black boxes and whatever parts they can retrieve have to be handed over to the NTSB for investigations. They have no reason to hide the findings. Nightiest Blue Nelly Li Qing and you're now well known for leaking out bad english! Congratulations! Adrian Wong Bryan Soh : Indeed. That is the best thing to do - listen to the experts. The experts have already spoken BTW - "Amid public curiosity and ridicule, a defence expert explained today that the Royal Malaysian Navy's submarines are fitted for combat and could not perform a search and rescue role." Eugene Tham Kaviarasu Subramanian Lau Fu Che Correction: It can deploy divers. The Govt needs to be hammered for their mishandling n mismanagement (including MAS) for lying from the first media conference. In my assessment of available information, the pilots are HEROES for attempting to reach nearest airport in Vietnam. Tsuey Meei Wan Chee Hong Foong Zhen Yin Malaysia had already deployed MV Mega Bakti which is the same ship as the so called "submarine" send by singapore MV Swift Rescue Johnathan Ramayah John Azaria read up broooo John Azaria Bro now we have almost 36 over ships in the waters the subs will not be relevant anymore. bcos all the ships has sonars to map the sea bed. John Azaria the suggestion to use sub sonars was given on the 1st few hours of search and rescue operation before the rest of the nation join in.
Vivienne Wong On another note ...what's this Adrian Wong > "china Martyrs Brigades Leader" Claims Responsibility For Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight #mh370 The "China Martyrs Brigades Leader" claims responsibility for crashing #MH370, credibility not known. Fessyar Amru Thank you for the info. It does gives a new perspective. It may not be the full truth and the most accurate info, but at least theyre facts given in a structured and intellectual manner. Unlike the polotical slurs that have been spewed out by some of these internet animals.. Si Pancing Lai forgive a non military knowledge equipped person like me. now the picture much clearer now. learn much after ur explanation. such as, 1) our billion worth submarine only good for attack not good for rescue. 2) our billion worth submarine's sonar not helpful for differentiating wreckage. 3) our billion worth submarine travel slow. 4) our billion worth submarine very far. 5) our billion worth submarine base somewhere at Sabah. *i)why Sulu army could intruded like their own backyard?* *ii)why Taiwanese tourist kidnapped at there so easy?* 6) our billion worth submarine is very loud n noisy when full throttle could be easily detect by enemy in the event of War. 7) our billion worth submarine batteries need to recharge often if full throttle. and need to be surfaced when recharge. O I C… Adrian Wong Lau Fu Che : If you are referring to the fact that they can surface and deploy divers, then yes, they can do that. But it would not be convenient as there is no allocated space for combat divers and they do not have a proper diving lock chamber for deployment of combat divers. AFAIK, our Scorpenes do not carry combat divers in the first place, so we will have to get them and the combat divers to rendezvous at Sepanggar, before they can be deployed to the site. Isn't it much easier to send a corvette or frigate to the site immediately, and use choppers to deliver the divers as necessary? BTW, what did MAS lie about in the first press conference? Lau Fu Che Adrian .. spec ops don't publicise. If you have not been correlating information as they bcome available please diversify your info sources .. summarily .. lost contact 119 according to flightradar24, 130 according to DCA, not 240 according to MAS .. radar contact lost location NOT correlated neither accurate (as of information available today) .. water depth of area 40-60m nowhere near 2-3km depths .. military radar tracks between viet and msia disparate portions of the same story .. please do do your own homework .. Adrian Wong John Azaria : Bro, even if the suggestion about using the subs was made minutes after the incident, it still wouldn't have made much sense. The fastest way to look for survivors would be to deploy a plane, like the P-3 Orion to look for surface debris and deploy sonobuoys if necessary. Then when the ships are there, they can listen for the beacon and/or use helicopters to look for surface debris and use their dipping sonar if necessary. They can do all that before the first sub even comes close to the area. John Azaria For the initial SAR operation i agree with you. with planes being deployed. i just overlooked 1 major point in regards to the subs. its diesel powered. not sure if it has any mid sea refueling capability or any refueling dock in east coast. so for sure that will not be ideal for such operation, my point is not to make criticism but as country to be proud of having such assets its just abit disappointing to see the limitation. i don't want to see our subs in war bcos i don't want war. this life saving operation with other nations sounds more patriotic. to me. Adrian Wong Lau Fu Che : Do you, or do you not, know for a fact that our Scorpenes have an onboard team of combat divers that can be deployed? If you are just speculating, then please state so. There's enough FUD as it is. "The Aviation Herald website reported that Subang Air Traffic Control lost radar and radio contact with the aircraft at 01:22 and officially advised Malaysia Airlines at 02:40 that the aircraft was missing. However, a Malaysia Airlines spokesperson said that the last conversation between the flight crew and air traffic control in Malaysia had been around 01:30, and stated that the plane had not disappeared from air traffic control systems in Subang until 02:40" Translation : The last RADIO CONVERSATION was at around 1:30 am but the RADAR TRANSPONDER disappeared at 2:40 am. I'm not sure you can say that they are lying. It could be the "fog of war". Give them time to get down to the bottom of it. In any case, does it matter if it was 1:30 or 2:40 when they lost contact with MH370? More importantly, this case will be investigated by the NTSB. So no matter what you may think about the government, it will be out of their hands once they find the plane and the rescue operation is over. William WL Loo I understand the pain of the families in beijing.only idiots still refer it as peking. Apparently they were dumped in a hall for the most of the first 24 hours. No answer is one thing. Nobody from MAS is unacceptable, only after 48 hours were representatives from MAS n grief counsellors deployed. Adrian Wong John Azaria : We should have a submarine tender to refuel them. But if they are going to be taking a long time getting to the spot, and aren't any more effective than a corvette or patrol boat for the matter, why waste time getting them there? Criticism of the government is not only right, it is the duty of every patriot, so I'm not saying we shouldn't criticize the government. I'm just pointing out that questioning the non-deployment of the Scorpenes is really missing the point. Lau Fu Che Speculating or not, spec ops do not publicise such info. Director DCA "RADAR contact lost at 130am". Tan Hann Pinn Then what the hell RSN Sub doing in our water? John Azaria Adrian Wong : Good Chat . Cheers ! Adrian Wong Lau Fu Che : Of course, they don't publicize such info. That doesn't mean we get to make them up. You can deploy combat divers off any platform - from the C-130 Hercules and helicopters to ships and submarines. That doesn't mean we must absolutely use the Scorpenes just because they can do it. If it's faster and easier to get divers (and support them) via ships, why waste time using the Scorpenes? Adrian Wong Tan Hann Pinn : What RSN sub are you talking about? Tan Hann Pinn RSN=Republic of Singapore Navy Adrian Wong Tan Hann Pinn : I know, but what submarine are you speaking of? Are you referring instead to the MV Swift Rescue (see picture in the original post)? That's a submarine rescue vessel. It's a ship, not a submarine. Lau Fu Che It doesn't mean you get to make up the alternative either to dig for "secret" /official info regarding our military Lau Fu Che I am not disagreeing with your point about NOT using scorpenes for SAR, btw Adrian Wong Lau Fu Che : The specification of the Scorpene is well-known. It does NOT have a diving chamber. It's an easily verifiable fact. If you claim they have something like that, then the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it. I'm not sure if you are aware, but it's impossible to disprove something that does not exist. In any case, assuming you are correct, and I grant you - you could be correct in that our Scorpenes could have a team of divers - it still wouldn't make them any more enticing to use in SAR than a ship. That is the crux of the issue being discussed. Tan Hann Pinn No Sir. News said RSN had deployed a sub to the region. RSN sub have the SAR ability? Or they just take the chance to enter Malaysia water? Adrian Wong Tan Hann Pinn : Do you have a link for the news on this? AFAIK... "The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) has deployed more assets to assist in the search-and-locate operation for the missing Beijing-bound Malaysia Airlines (MAS) plane MH370. It sent two more Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) C-130 aircraft, a Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) Formidable-class frigate (RSS Steadfast) with a Sikorsky S-70B naval helicopter onboard, a submarine support and rescue vessel with divers onboard, as well as a Missile Corvette (RSS Vigour)."
Fessyar Amru Lau Fu Che im quite interested on your effort of ridiculing the efforts of the authority. And too all the keyboard warrioirs as well... Yes, they have not been providing the most accurate of answers. Yes, they may have not been telling all the information first hand. Yes, there does seems to be defficientcy in the management.. They're just humans, they're under pressure.. and they're alot of parties they need to take care of which includes and not limited to, the interests of the families and nations involved in the incident. So tell me, should you get the right information, the truth of all the truth, the most immediate of all real time information.. will you actually be there contributing to the Search and Rescue operation? Will you volunteer yourself? Or are you just gonna sit back and be satisfied by having the most current information to tell to your friends..... Lau Fu Che And why would you assume I'm not involved ? Ridiculing people .. wow .. u must be some supersensitive champion beacon .. accurate info supports situational mgmt and expectations but u shud know that .. "we have no confirmation of a crash" is acceptable for you I guess .. more in line with your propositions written. Adrian Wong Vivienne Wong : I have never heard of the Chinese Martyr's Brigade. It may be another hoax, or an attempt by the Uigher dissidents to capitalize on the event to highlight their problems. In any case, they seem to be looking into the possibility it may be an act of terrorism. But without the aircraft itself and/or the black boxes, it would probably be impossible for them to know for sure. Tan Hann Pinn Think i got it wrong. Just read the latest news that RSN never deploy any sub. Roshan Babu Balakrishnan Just my 2cents la. If all comunication on the plane has failed then the only beacon which can be traced is from the blackbox. If the plane really crashed into the see then the wrackage would be into pieces and the black box might be deep down the sea bed. In such scenario certain ships wont be able to hear the beeps with their equiped sonar but a sub would be able to hear that ping. Maybe for rescue and divers it wont be a good idea but try looking up on the france airline incident on why a nuclear sub was used to search for the blackbox. Also yes it takes 36 hours to reach the spot mentioned but as what our military radar said the plane might have turned back and could have crashed somewhere out from where their looking. The subs could help search others areas closer to them. And we have even deployed people to search the selat melaka. If the plane lost all communication how can our radar failed to indentify an unidentified flying plane crossing over our nation from south china sea to selat melaka? Ryan Kenshin Duh.. speculation.. how do you guys know that the sub havent been deployed for rescue mission??? U think the navy will tell u even if they hv been deplpoyed? Some things should remain secret in the interest of national security n geopolitical. U cant just say out loud about our sub capability to other nation nor the sub whereabouts. Adrian Wong Roshan Babu Balakrishnan : In Air France Flight 447, they used a submarine because the ocean floor was around 3,800-4,000 m deep. The Gulf of Thailand, on the other hand, is only 45-80 m deep. As for the beacon, any ship with passive sonar can detect the pinging beacon. It doesn't require a special sonar. Let me try using an analogy... If your dog disappeared one day, you could use the following vehicles to scour the housing area to look for it : - your car - your motorcycle - your bicycle - your son's tricycle The submarine is your son's tricycle. Yes, you could conceivably ride it to look for your dog, but is that the best option? The P-3 Orion aircraft, for example, is the car - it can cover 4,000 square kilometres EVERY HOUR. Wouldn't you want to use that instead of say... a submarine that does only 37 km/h, and even that's for a short time before it has to recharge its batteries? Ryan Kenshin Just because we hate the gov doesnt mean they are incompetence on doing their job.. How about we trust the govt for now and kill each other later.. Roshan Babu Balakrishnan At times when u lost your dog. Walking by foot is the best option to find your dog. Since the car bike and others might have limited move and places they cant reach. Yonge Nurullizah Adena Mayang Adrian Wong Roshan Babu Balakrishnan : Totally agree, but the point I believe is that the submarine brings no benefit to the MH370 search. Singapore, for example, has 6 attack submarines in the vicinity but even they aren't using them in the search. Neither are the Americans, the Australians, the Chinese or even the Vietnamese - all of whom have submarines in the area. Elaine Elysha Irwanto Thanks Adrian Wong for the clarification/explanation. Doesn't matter which country is sending what, sampan kah boat kah as long as we all know that all of them r working hard finding Mh370. Msia might be slow but with US, Spore, Australia, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, Thailand, Phillipine intervention, surely we can have faith with them. For now, let's just pray & hope will find Mh370 soon. Vivienne Wong Sharing this .. Food for thought??? An airline tracking website suggested it plunged 650ft and changed direction before it vanished.>> Nelayan dakwa lihat pesawat terbang rendah 2014/03/10 - 05:44:29 AM Cetak Emel Kawan Kuala Lumpur: Dua nelayan di Kelantan mendakwa melihat sebuah pesawat terbang rendah, kira-kira lapan batu nautika dari Pantai Kuala Besar, Kota Bharu, awal pagi Sabtu lalu. Azid Ibrahim, 55, berkata dalam kejadian jam 1.30 pagi itu, dia sedang memancing bersama seorang rakan apabila jelas dapat melihat pesawat terbabit terbang di bawah awan, tidak seperti biasa. “Kami pelik kerana biasanya, pesawat tak terbang serendah itu. Kami takut ia terhempas, tapi pesawat terbabit terus terbang rendah menuju arah utara,” katanya ketika dihubungi, semalam. Azid berkata, dia menonton televisyen kelmarin dan terkejut apabila mengetahui kehilangan pesawat MH370 bersama 227 penumpang dan 12 kru sebelum rakan yang bersamanya ke laut, bercerita kisah mereka melihat sebuah pesawat terbang rendah kepada penduduk lain. “Pagi tadi (semalam), beberapa anggota polis datang ke rumah mengambil keterangan bagi membantu siasatan kehilangan pesawat itu. Saya kemudian diminta ke balai polis untuk buat laporan selain menunjukkan lokasi terakhir melihat pesawat terbabit,” kata bapa lima anak itu yang membuat laporan di Balai Polis Pengkalan Chepa. Ditanya sama sama ada melihat asap atau api dari pesawat itu, Azid berkata, mereka tidak melihat tanda menunjukkan pesawat berkenaan mengalami masalah. Adrian N Nicole Amaladoss Singapore has said that it will send its SSRV MV Swift Rescue submarine on Sunday,which is today. Jasmine Carlena Huertas This article on its own shows that the score ex are pretty useless in itself!! Or was that the point of this article LOL Vivienne Wong Questions arising on a friend's thread > With the amount of fuel ( 7.5 hrs on takeoff) carried by MH370, how many air-strips within the distance afforded by that amount of fuel can a Boeing 777-200 land on? How many private or military air-strips can accommodate a bird that big? Nightiest Blue Nelly Did you know some american keyboard warriors says that the first Officer Ahmad Fariq might be working for al qaeda because his name is Arabic? Derp. Quek Swee Tiag The Swift Rescue is a Submarine Support Rescue Vessel, not actually a submarine but a surface motor vessel that supports submarine ops. Suai Ke Lin Hann Pinn....when tragedies strike, all neighbours chip in to help.It knows no border...are you trying to stir something?? Adrian Wong Vivienne Wong : If I'm not mistaken, the Boeing 777-200ER needs a strip of at least 3.5 km in length. It can land on a shorter runway but it will require 3.5 km or so to take off at maximum load. I guess if they reduce the load, it can land and take off on a strip that is just 2.5-3 km long. Adrian Wong Nightiest Blue Nelly : Damn.. then I must be a Chinese agent. Now, when do I get paid, and will it be in RMB or SGD? LOL! Kong Kim Yuan @Adrian Wong, kudos to you for writing this article, and most of all, the patience you displayed in answering queries/challenges and clarifying the doubts raised. Adrian Wong Kong Kim Yuan : My pleasure. Sudirman Husani Anyone know the operational radius of a 777? Yvonne Chung your effort and time to enlighten netizens are much appreciated. HOWEVER, that still failed to alleviate the disappointment and anger or anxiety of the whole world (in general). Especially when compared to the AF447 tragedy - read the full report on 1) how long the Search and Rescue mission lasted before the first major wreckage was found, 2) how many parties aka countries were involved, 3) the steps taken to find the wreckage, 4) first attempt to search for the aircraft after (repeated) contact was unsuccessful. And all that took place in the 2nd largest ocean in the world. Whereas ours is only, like you said, a mere "sea"-bed with a depth of only 45-80m deep? Kinda pathetic, if you ask me. I'm just saying. Don't get me wrong. I love my country as much as any true-blooded Malaysian but I find it perplexing, frustrated and last but not the least, disgusted at the sheer incompetence and lackadaisical attitude MAS took from the first moment they KNOW a BIG AEROPLANE DISAPPEARED from radar. Suanie T What? MAS crisis management and handling is ok for this. Why do you claim that they were incompetent and lackadaisical? Are they supposed to release unverified information too public before checking things out? If yes yah they sure suck. Boo MAS
Raymond Silver Tron Apparently, the submarines were to go through fine tuning to include search and rescue. AFP: Malaysia's first ever submarine arrives to acclaim Darren Thl Good job @Adrian Wong. Now I'd like to see some people getting burned from their senseless comments. Sharing this. Adrian Wong Sudirman Husani : The Boeing 777-200ER's maximum range is 14,300 km, but its actual range depends on many factors. Guat Hee Tan if the sub is not ideal for SAR, then the rmn or arsehole who claim the sub was bought also for SAR purpose is. ... an arsehole. Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : I think we need to keep in mind that there is actually no evidence that the plane crashed into the sea or anywhere else for the matter. That's what's so perplexing, and I would think is the main reason why MAS cannot say much without offending people and/or opening themselves up to litigation. The depth isn't the issue since the Gulf of Thailand is just 45-80 m deep. The problem is that the area they need to search is vast, partly because the radar tracking shows that it may have turned back before it fell off the radar. Now even more perplexing are claims that some fishermen saw it flying low past them and heading NORTH. All this needs to be verified while the others are scouring the sea for evidence of a crash. Yvonne Chung good job Raymond Silver Tron. Now what defence has anyone got to say? It's very obvious, our submarines are mainly for showcase and to collect dust - or rust maybe? Adrian Wong Raymond Silver Tron : Heh.. I think that's really just to "sell" the sub to the public. Attack subs are now evolving into platforms for the covert insertion of special forces because they have such limited utility these days. Heck, I'm surprised they didn't throw some MANPADs inside and claim that it has anti-aircraft capabilities as well. Raymond Silver Tron Adrian, i don't think navy officer should joke with the public when it involved billion of tax payers money. Yvonne Chung Suanie T, crisis management? MAS has one? Oh yeah, when a real crisis happens ONLY right? As usual with our govt. Try to google the internet on information about AF447. That plane crashed at 0214. Contacts were attempted and by 0400, aerial search was already launched. Now, compared to MH370. When was contact confirmed lost? And when did MAS really start to take any actions? Just read up. Adrian Wong Raymond Silver Tron : I'm not a naval officer. If you are referring to those who made the claim that the submarine can do SAR, that was not a joke. Embellishing the truth is common in the military, especially when they want to purchase equipment. Like I pointed out, it's not lying. Throw in a MANPAD, and it can "technically" attack aircraft but does it mean it's an anti-aircraft platform? Of course, not. It can be used in SAR, but what kind of SAR? It all depends on the definition. Searching and rescuing illegal immigrants on their boats? Sure. Rescuing other submarines? Of course, not. Yvonne Chung Adrian Wong, sure no evidence that the plane had "crashed". I get it. And is there any REAL evidence that the plane DID attempted an ATB (air turn back)? The RMAF/RMNavy said that huh? Forgive me for being skeptical but past experiences made me very doubtful about anything our govt - or GLC - is trying to "feed" us or "want us to believe". Show me concrete video or that sort and I'll believe that. Fishermen huh? At 1:30am fishing huh? And what exactly are they catching? And how old are they? Can they even "SEE" what they are catching? Sounds "fishy" to me, if you ask me. Pun intended. Gulf of Thailand is vast. Sure, as with any other seas. But is it any bigger than Atlantic OCEAN? Well....I guess I should give our govt a break coz...we are 3rd world country after all, huh? Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : Assuming they are lying about the Air Turn Back, does it matter? There is no sign of the plane at the point where contact was lost. Of course, the fishermen's story is fishy. But it's something they have to follow up. If they didn't, I'm sure someone will ask - why didn't you follow up on their story? Are you trying to cover something up? See what I mean? I think you should read up on Air France Flight 447. When it crashed, they already found the wreckage on the second day - "On 2 June at 15:20 (UTC), a Brazilian Air Force Embraer R-99A spotted wreckage and signs of oil, possibly jet fuel, strewn along a 5 km (3 mi) band 650 km (400 mi) north-east of Fernando de Noronha Island, near the Saint Peter and Saint Paul Archipelago. The sighted wreckage included an aircraft seat, an orange buoy, a barrel, and "white pieces and electrical conductors." So they KNEW where the crash site was. It didn't matter if the Atlantic was 106,400,000 square kilometres. No one is saying we should give them a break, but let's call a spade a spade. Just because we don't like them, does it mean we should malign them? Bernard Lim Well said.. Jason Lim Justification by M'sian Gov to buy these useless subs: https://m.facebook.com/206406536189...3625:mf_story_key.-89560047559397737&__tn__=C You might want to rebut there. Adrian Wong Jason Lim : What makes you think I agree with the purchase of the Scorpene submarines in the first place? That said, the submarines are not "useless". If you need to take out a ship stealthily, the Scorpene should do a decent job of it. But as I pointed out, it doesn't make for a very good search and rescue platform at this point in time. Tham Chien Yih Im just.curios any submarine big or small can detect sonars signal from any range . Also satelite imaging shud able to pick up heat and electric signals rite? I believe our subs have gone through 'proper fine tuning' for SAR operations. Adrian Wong Tham Chien Yih : No, sonar performance varies from submarine to submarine, and also the condition of the sea and where the thermocline is, etc. Satellites cannot see into the sea AFAIK. Yvonne Chung Adrian Wong, the reverse may also be true. I am talking about the discovery of those fishermen. Some powerful people might *ehem* "bought* them. Hey you might call this far-fetched or whatnot, but who knows? Anything can happen in the grand scheme of cover-ups. Things that might not seems possible. We see it in movies sometimes. Hey, I'm just trying to "think outside the box". See what I mean? *shrugs* Because you know what? At the end of the day, the timing of this event is just too...good to "coincide" with another VERY important thing that was going on at THE SAME TIME. And guess what? It succeeded. Don't try to tell me what is God's will or fate or such..I believe in God but I also believe there are many things in this world that are *cough* man-made. Back to discussion, about ATB - yes it does matter. Lying is still lying. If your employee has done a misconduct, but there is valid reason, will the employee be punished? Yes of course. No excuses. And by the way, I DID read about AF447. Many times. On many sources. Including details from the flight data recorders. Which is PRECISELY why I - and other netizens (mostly from mainland chinese) as well as families of the passengers - found it hard to stomach the complete lack of actions from MAS when they already KNEW the aeroplane went missing from radar at 0240 and only started doing "something" AFTER 0730. Can you explain that? Of course not. Because our beloved govt, DCA DG and MAS CEO couldn't either. After so many lapse of hours, do you still expect the debris (if any) to be still lying quietly in "still water"? In any emergency, isn't time is the essence? I wonder what happened to that? Oh yeah...in all fairness, nobody and I mean NOBODY in our country EVER have a thought that our aeroplane can crash huh? Adrian Wong Wong Yu Liang : LOL! People have been sharing this non-stop. Seriously though, the Scorpene can technically perform search and rescue operations. It just depends on what KIND of SAR operations we are talking about. Can the Scorpene look for a sinking ship and rescue its sailors? Yes, if it's in the vicinity. Can the Scorpene look for a sunk sub and rescue its sailors? It can look for it, but it can't rescue them. Can the Scorpene look for MH370 and rescue any survivors? Despite what Hishammuddin may have said, yes, it can, but it's not a suitable SAR platform because they don't even know where it landed. Does this mean that the Scorpene is a SAR sub? No. Just like a car can serve as an ambulance in an emergency, the Scorpene can serve in the SAR capacity if necessary. It doesn't make the car an ambulance. Wong Yu Liang Good point there. But at times of emergency i think government should mobilize all available resources to Search first instead of rescue. However at this point, tragically, it's probably only a Search only operation. I'm not underwater search expert but underwater visibility would be added advantage, as the plane could have sunk. By the way, if you do not have an ambulance during emergency, a car is a good option as long as you reach the hospital on time.
Yvonne Chung and by the way, the French govt DID send a vessel equipped with 2 (two) mini-submarines to the suspected crash site - as per wiki. We do know or have a "suspected location" of our MH370, don't we? Seeing that the current SAR is still not showing much progress, shouldn't it about time to change methods or do we just simply love to stay in a rut? If we can't do a good job, then please just pass over the leadership to the *ehem* more experienced teams? Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : Are you suggesting that the BN government ordered the destruction of the MH370 to what purpose? To prevent Anwar from running in the Kajang by-elections? What exactly are you saying? Lying? Seriously, where are you getting the notion that they lied about the ATB? There is no evidence they lied about it. I was merely asking you HYPOTHETICALLY, if they lied, does it change the equation for MH370? Does it change anything at all? Sorry but it doesn't sound like you actually read it. If you did, you would know that the AF447 crash site was well known. Yet they couldn't locate the black boxes even though they were just a short distance away. The complete lack of action by MAS? Not that I'm defending them, but what did you expect them to do when they were informed that they lost contact with the flight at 2:40 am? You don't even know that civilian airliners are tracked by the radar transponders they emit, which can malfunction or get turned off by the pilots. I'm no pilot but apparently, losing radar contact for whatever reason is quite normal. In fact, a pilot that was 30 minutes ahead of them was asked to contact them and he did, but heard only mumbling - MISSING MH370: Pilot: I established contact with plane - General - New Straits Times Based on all these, are you seriously telling me you expect them to declare an emergency when no one was sure the flight was in trouble? As for debris floating after several hours, of course debris that can float will float for days and weeks. The debris from AF447 was found floating for DAYS : "Early on 6 June 2009, five days after Flight 447 disappeared, two male bodies, the first to be recovered from the crashed aircraft, were brought on board the corvette Caboclo along with a seat, a nylon backpack containing a computer and vaccination card and a leather briefcase containing a boarding pass for the Air France flight. The following day, 7 June, search crews recovered the Airbus's vertical stabilizer, the first major piece of wreckage to be discovered." If you don't believe, fill up your bathtub and put in a plastic bag. Leave it. See how many years it takes before it disintegrates and finally sinks. Hanson Tan Perhaps you are correct about the Scorpene not being an effective SAR option... but the fact that it costs billions of our money and yet has no function whatsoever in times of crisis like this makes my blood boil. MH370 SAR aside, I don't know about you but I still think the Scorpene is useless and its purchase is not only wasteful but unwarranted. IMHO. Adrian Wong Hanson Tan : I actually said it several times before - I never said that the Scorpenes were worth buying in the first place. There is better use of our money, even if we are to use it only for the Navy. But harping on the Scorpenes is a waste of time, even for the Opposition. Like I said, it is a dangerous dead-end because it's such a frivolous point, and it comes off as insensitive. We all know it was a waste of money. Harping on the RMN's refusal to use it to search for MH370 isn't going to make any difference. Worse of all - those harping on it will seem like they are doing it to score political points, rather than being concerned about MH370. Yvonne Chung Bathtub? Seriously? Is the water even moving? Sure, when I put my hands into it and row it. But we are talking about the sea and ocean. Your example is irrelevant. And the bodies found in the AF 447 case were drifting apart between 50 to 100 miles. That's how far it goes. No I am not asking our govt or the authorities to declare a state of emergency. But merely have the guts and honour to inform and tell the families concerned, the TRUTH. And not to withhold information! I guess you have not been through that experience yet huh? Do you know how big a black box is? And how the ocean bed is? The black box is embedded INSIDE the ocean floor. And even then the beacon light will still be emitting signal. HowStuffWorks "How Black Boxes Work" . Underwater Locator Beacon - assuming that MH370 is underwater now - will automatically be turned on upon impact with water. I can't say for sure if THIS can be turned off MANUALLY, but I doubt it. Any pilot or engineers of aircraft can verify this? Even I, a layman, actually know this after watching an anime called Arpeggio of the Blue Steel. On political matters, I believe I have said enough. Too much actually so I will reserve my thoughts now. I didn't actually said the authorities are "lying" about ATB. I merely said there is no concrete proof of that. Where did YOU get the notion that I'm talking about the matter being lied? I was implying that I have high reservations on the things that are feed to civilians via our mainstream medias. Hanson Tan Well, as you can see, I am not an opposition trying to score political points. And as you said, the government did embellish the Scorpene's ability... as a tax-payer, I am now questioning the government and making them accountable. Being concerned about MH370 is one thing; it does not mean everything else stops; the country must still run, the by-election will still take place, and I will still have to work tomorrow. So you see, the people involved in SAR has my utmost support and my prayers are with the family, crews and passengers of the ill-fated flight. But now is a time as good as any other time to question the government and hold them accountable for their wasteful spending. So allow me to reiterate that "people hammering the Malaysian government" does not mean we are hammering the Royal Malaysian Navy or the MH370 SAR efforts. To equate such is plain dumb. Adrian Wong Wong Yu Liang : I think that's what everyone is doing - search for MH370. That's why they are using the fast assets - planes, helicopters, ships instead of the slow movers - the submarines. Whether the plane hit the water in one piece or broke up in mid-air, there will be surface debris. And if the black boxes are not too damaged, they have beacons that will ping for 30 days or so. That's why speed is of necessity. They need to quickly cover as wide an area as possible to find the wreckage and/or black boxes within 30 days IF the plane has actually crashed into the sea. Yes, as I pointed out, in an emergency, a car works almost as well as an ambulance. That's the same with the submarines. Sure, they can order the subs to go, but it will take them a week to reach the current area. If it's a totally different area? That will take them even more time. Perhaps they will only bring in the subs AFTER they have more or less found the crash site to help listen for the pinging of the beacons. Of course, they can't do much more than that. They will need to rely on the Singaporean rescue vessel MV Swift Rescue or divers to retrieve the black boxes. Brian Chong Expensive doesn't mean all-rounder. Being a combat sub, the bulk of the $$$ goes into technology that allows it to a) maximize survival rate in hostile condition b) able to take hostiles down if necessary For example, one could spend hundreds of thousands to be a surgeon but if someone's drowning that doesn't mean he's good to go for it. The lifeguard who spent his days at the beach would do a better job. Both are humans, both have arms and legs, breaths, both swim - just a matter of which one is suitable for the job. Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : Well, if you prefer you can always use a Jacuzzi, but I assure you - the plastic bag will float. Yes, even in the sea. What is the truth, Yvonne? Seriously, if you know the truth, why don't you tell us? Because no one seems to know anything. If they did, why would they hide it? I'm glad you watch anime. Now maybe if you pay attention to what I write, you will note that I already mentioned many times that the black boxes have BEACONS that will ping for about 30 days. Where did I get the notion that you were talking about the ATB being a lie? Oh, let's see.... "And is there any REAL evidence that the plane DID attempted an ATB (air turn back)? The RMAF/RMNavy said that huh? Forgive me for being skeptical but past experiences made me very doubtful about anything our govt - or GLC - is trying to "feed" us or "want us to believe". " "Back to discussion, about ATB - yes it does matter. Lying is still lying. If your employee has done a misconduct, but there is valid reason, will the employee be punished? Yes of course. No excuses. " High reservations? Just be straightforward and say that you think they are lying. Seriously, why beat around the bush. If you believe they are not telling the truth, it means you believe that they are lying. It's that simple. Adrian Wong Hanson Tan : Actually, I also pointed out that they are technically correct. The Scorpene is TECHNICALLY capable of search and rescue. It just depends on the definition of "search and rescue". To me, they were embellishing its abilities, because attack submarines aren't designed or suitable for SAR. It doesn't matter if it's the Scorpene or the Los Angeles class submarine. But that is not the issue here. As a taxpayer, you have a right to question the government's decisions and hold them accountable. But this is an OPERATIONAL decision, not a political decision. Just because we paid a dear cost (in money and lives) for the Scorpene submarines does not mean we get to insist that they be used even if they are not suited for the task. If we have any respect for the professionalism of our armed forces, we should let them decide what assets to use. Who are we to tell them what to do? NONE OF US here are naval officers, much less submarine officers. When lives are at stake, there should be no politics, no racism, no bigotry. When a patient comes in dying, does a doctor ask if he's white or black or Muslim or Christian before he treats him? Of course not. Why then should it matter if the damn submarines were a waste of money? You use the BEST TOOLS for the job, period.
Brian Chong It's most certainly NOT the time to doubt and condemn the government and rescue forces. We only hear reports, we're not at the scene. They are there, they're doing what they can - people are called for the emergency to find the wreckage and many of them have homes to return to as well. Let's not condemn them but rather we should just show our support to them over such a grim period in Malaysian history. Yvonne Chung lol I actually agree and like what Brian Chong said. IMHO, I don't think buying a submarine for our country is "unnecessary". It is a means of national defence or security hence a nation do need at least a few. What I am not happy about, is the total lack of protocols in terms of emergency rescue - or perhaps evacuation. Let's just face it. We have nil or zero knowledge of what to do in the event of a catastrophe. Which is what worrying me. Zarit Baha Wow it is very technical about this submarine and hard to understand for a person like me. I think the biggest fear to our gov is this plane might be captured by a terrorist. For me I prefer this plane with a terrorist because at least all the passengers will still be alive but this is vice versa by our gov, I believe they prefer it to be crashed cause terrorist will give them troubles. Maybe not much information been given because gov is very careful in revealing information to others country who is trying to help because afraid and ashame that there are too many flaws and corruptions in Malaysia laws. My prayers is always with all the passengers. Please come back soon Adrian Wong I know how passionate some of you are about the situation in our country, but we must not turn into the enemies we despise. We must always strive to be better than them. They may cheat, lie, and steal. It may seem like we may have to become like them if we want to win, but what's the point then? We would become the people we despise. We become THEM. Yvonne Chung Well Adrian, lying is also a matter of perception. Some people just prefer to accept "anything" if it sounds good. Others don't. Oh yes, there is also such a thing as half-truths. Ever heard of that? I practised it sometimes too. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And yes, I think I know a fair bit about Beacons in aircraft and other machines, as I have done a little bit of reading about it ever since my last anime and this incident only added my curiosity. So thank you very much. And you know, metal sink. A submarine can sink too. Titanic sunk. An aeroplane if it is not broken into pieces sunk too. What else does that tell you? I don't know about you. I'm just a layman. All I know is that if you are stuck in a rut, you need to find another way to do things. Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : Yes, metals sink, but airplanes are not made of just metal. They have plenty of stuff that are lighter than water and will float. That's how they located AF447, remember? James Chong Good job Adrian. Well done. And for having such patience in your replies to some really, really, ignorant statements. Bravo. Am sharing this. Yvonne Chung Yep. But you missed my initial point. After so many lapse of hours, do you still think the debris (if any) will remain ON THE SAME SPOT? I am not talking about floating or submerging. And btw, you brought up on the lying matter first. " Assuming they are lying about the Air Turn Back, does it matter? There is no sign of the plane at the point where contact was lost. Lying? Seriously, where are you getting the notion that they lied about the ATB? There is no evidence they lied about it. I was merely asking you HYPOTHETICALLY, if they lied, does it change the equation for MH370? Does it change anything at all?" I was merely speaking in rhetoric, not beating around the bush or anything. It's up to you to decide what to believe in. As is me. Don't you think? Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : Of course, the debris won't be in the same spot. But can they move faster than a ship? Faster than a P-3C Orion? You are also assuming that a lapse of hours before any SAR operation is carried out is abnormal. Take AF447 for example. The circumstances were quite similar. They lost contact with it at around 1:30 am in the morning. It took them 10 hours BEFORE a search team was actually dispatched. "For the first hour, air traffic controllers generated a “virtual flight” on their computers, as is common practice, passing the plane along its intended route. For the next two hours, controllers checked periodically to see if anyone had seen the plane, and when a controller in Brazil asked a controller in Senegal if the plane had reached Cape Verde, the controller in Senegal said that Cape Verde hadn’t talked to them but not to worry; so the controller in Brazil didn’t. By the time Air France alerted a satellite search-and-rescue, 4 hours and 20 minutes had passed, and then it was another two hours before anyone notified the B.E.A. A search team lifted off in Dakar 10 hours after the last radio contact and for the next 45 minutes flew toward Cape Verde, where they assumed the plane had gone down." And it was only on the THIRD DAY that the first ship arrived at the crash site. Look, if you want to believe that there is some kind of conspiracy to cover up MH370, that's your right. I'm not here to dissuade you from "thinking outside the box". But do it in your own time and place. The plane hasn't been found yet. No one knows where it is, or what happened to it. This post isn't about conspiracy theories on what might have happened to MH370. This post is about why it doesn't make much sense to send the Scorpenes to look for MH370. Adrian Wong Thanks, James Chong. It's getting really tiresome though. LOL.. James Chong Yeah it always does. But it's a good thing. Most who get it remain silent, but they get it, they agree with you and see your point clearly. Wang Jun Lem Yvonne Chung: Honestly, I've read all of your comments and I really don't know what you're driving at. That the government is lying? That there are no protocols available to tackle the one of the biggest mysteries that the industry has ever seen? Please do enlighten me, and possibly Adrian, and the government, and all other bodies involved in the search and rescue mission, on what the next course of action should be, and the reasons why, given the current circumstances (of which we know little of). Aku Anak Felda Tersang Very bold and great discussion! Clarisse WeiYin Chen Good point. At least when the rakyats are questioning why isn't the Scorpene deployed, the government should respond to that and "educate" the rakyat a little on submarine knowledge...instead of the usual 'questions-fall-on-deaf-ears' treatment by the government. Raymond Silver Tron When we criticised the Scorpene, we are not criticising the navy nor the current effort in search and rescue. This is because of the amount of tax payers money spent by whoever that negotiate the deal, and now it is not able to participate in SAR. You think we do not know that it is not usable for SAR? To educate us the technicalities of the Scorpene is appreciated but it only goes to show that the government has lied to us before and will continue to do so. Again, I'm not criticising the navy, MAS nor the SAR team. If you fail to understand the feelings of us, the tax payers, whose money were used for so many other things but SAR, then you fail to understand beyond our criticisms. Charles Chan Adrian Wong, are you saying our government telling lies to us the rakyat all times? It's not us blaming the gov but they themselves told the reporters that scorpane sub will be fine tune to SAR capability as well... Please read my attached news cutting... What say you? Alex Foo Wonder detail. Such a great analytical skill Adrian Wong Raymond Silver Tron : You need to dissociate the costs and reasons for buying the Scorpene from the operational decision to use (or not to use) the Scorpene. We all probably agree that : a) There are many better things to buy than the Scorpene submarines. b) There are better submarines to buy than the Scorpenes c) We paid way too much in money and lives for the Scorpene. Now that all that is clear and out of the way, whether the Scorpenes should be used for the MH370 SAR or not should depend on whether it's suitable for the job or not, not because we paid for it already. I think it would not be accurate to say that it's not "usable" for SAR. It can be used for SAR but it all depends on what kind of SAR. In any case, attack submarines are not an optimal platform for SAR, no matter whether it's the Scorpenes we bought, or the LA-class submarines the US owns. It's just the nature of what they are. If the government has lied to you, you have every right to be outraged. But that should not influence the decision of whether the Scorpene should be used or not. That decision should be left to the RMN which operates the Scorpene. They will know if it's suitable for the job at hand. Not the Minister of Defence, not you, not I Adrian Wong Charles Chan : If you scroll up a little, you will see that I've already answered the "attached news cutting". Let me copy and paste my reply : "LOL! People have been sharing this non-stop. Seriously though, the Scorpene can technically perform search and rescue operations. It just depends on what KIND of SAR operations we are talking about. Can the Scorpene look for a sinking ship and rescue its sailors? Yes, if it's in the vicinity. Can the Scorpene look for a sunk sub and rescue its sailors? It can look for it, but it can't rescue them. Can the Scorpene look for MH370 and rescue any survivors? Despite what Hishammuddin may have said, yes, it can, but it's not a suitable SAR platform because they don't even know where it landed. Does this mean that the Scorpene is a SAR sub? No. Just like a car can serve as an ambulance in an emergency, the Scorpene can serve in the SAR capacity if necessary. It doesn't make the car an ambulance." Charles Chan Yup, that's true... So, now what is the ultimate priority? Do you think that the passengers can hold on in the plane if the plane is still intact under the sea? Why don't they just send that two sub to help up searching? The sonar system equipped is way better than those using eye observation on C130... If the gov said its because the sea bed is too shallow or military consideration, that I could understand... But not this. If the ambulance not coming in an emergency, you don't just wait there and let the patient die... The car can take the patient to hospital even thou is not an ambulance. If need be, fishing boat can also be used to help in finding debris... Don't you think so? Raymond Silver Tron Adrian, based on what qualification when you posted all these technical information? Are you from the navy operating the submarine? Are you an expert in submarines? Are you in charge of the Scorpene fine tuning operations? Common sense tells me that you need the right qualifications before sharing technical information especially of a submarine. Hope you don't tell me by saying you did research over the internet and conclude your findings. Adrian Wong Charles Chan : Please read my original post where I've listed the reasons why the Scorpenes are not suitable SAR platforms for the MH370 incident. You mentioned a good point - what's the ultimate priority? As MAS has stated, it's to find #MH370. No one saw it go down. No one has found any surface debris. No one has heard or seen any emergency beacon. They have NO IDEA where it is. So locating MH370 is their ultimate priority at this point in time. If MH370 crashed and is under the sea, trust me - there are no survivors if they didn't make it out of the plane right after they hit water. It's not like in Airport 77, where the airplane has an airtight pressure hull like a submarine. That's just a movie. Even hypothetically if MH370 somehow was equipped with a pressure hull, the Scorpenes CANNOT rescue anyone from it. Neither can the MV Swift Rescue for that matter. The two subs can assist in searching for it, but why waste time with them, when you can use fast assets like planes, helicopters and ships? Heck, even fishing boats are better because they can spot surface debris, as you pointed out. Yvonne Chung Well said Raymond Silver Tron! Thousand "likes" if I could give.
Adrian Wong Raymond Silver Tron : Common sense would tell us that if you can refute my points, you wouldn't need to resort to ad hominem attacks. Facts about submarine operations are easily found if you take the time to research and read up. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me, but stick to the facts. Faris Baba Everybody trying to act hero here wakakakaka Yvonne Chung Now now...chill out. It's just a small debate or discussion - call it what you want - because we are all concerned about what is happening in our country. No need to get all personal, much less talk about "attacks" - which I believe there is none. If can't take the heat or simply too tiresome, then there is always the choice to ignore, isn't it? Read this and compare to our incident:- BBC NEWS | Americas | Timeline of Flight AF 447 . Now, answer me these questions - or not:- 1) how much time was lapsed between the time of arrival of AF447 before it was announced as "missing" to the public? 2) when was a crisis plan drawn up in AF447 tragedy? And when was ours? 3) AF447 is an Airbus, is it not? It is bigger than a Boeing, is it not? 4) Is Atlantic ocean smaller than South China Sea? You know, I really don't want to talk about conspiracy theories anymore than anyone but most of us laymen aren't too interested in knowing all the technicalities either. What we care about, eventually, is the actions of our govt and all the authorities concerned. Whether it is for the moment or *touch wood* for the future. Last but not the least, we are here not just to argue for the sake of argue. Yvonne Chung Wang Jun Lem, If you don't know what I am driving at, then too bad. Is the govt lying? Sure. As do every govt in the world. At the very least, withholding informations to the public. No protocols? Yep. Biggest mysteries? I believe "ghosts" and "magic" are the biggest "mysteries" in the world. If I can give advice on the next course of actions to be taken, then I wouldn't or shouldn't be sitting behind some pixel screen and be a....what is that they called it nowadays?...keyboard warrior? Wouldn't I? Wang Jun Lem Yvonne Chung: You haven't exactly answered my question, than to say "if you don't know what I am driving at, then too bad". Now, to answer your points: 1) If you had bothered to do simple Googling (and this is precisely why one is labelled a keyboard warrior, just in case you're interested, for not researching before making all sorts of accusations), this shows that the Airbus A330 (used as AF447), is smaller than the Boeing 777 (used as MH370). Aircraft comparison: Airbus A330-300 vs. Boeing 777-300 | aviatorjoe.net 2) The circumstances of the crash are very different. There was no mayday signal sent out by MH370, while in the same article you posted by BBC, Air France confirmed that a message related to electrical faults was done. In fact, looking at this would tell you exactly that there was no reason for suspicion that the plane had much problems (do a search for ACARS): http://mirror.co.uk/.../missing-malaysia-airlines-flight... 3) What do the sizes of the Atlantic Ocean and the South China Sea have anything to do with this? The fact is, we currently have no leads on the plane itself, even more surprising given that the size of the South China Sea is smaller. Zero. Nada. Zilch. We haven't found any body, any debris in the South China Sea, despite efforts having started 3 days ago; in the AF447 crash, your BBC article reported that the first items to be "definitely linked to the plane" were found six days after the crash. 4) A media statement was released that confirmed the missing status of MH370 roughly 1 hour after the plane was expected to land. If we actually want to nitpick about the time, then the announcement was made faster than Air France (even though there's no reason why there should be nitpicking): https://www.facebook.com/my.malaysiaairlines/posts/514299315349933 The last thing we need right now when everyone is worried would be misinformation. Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : I'm a direct person, so please don't bother with the sly remarks. It's a waste of time. Ahh... the word "please". It's so rare to see people use it these days. Of course, you can Google it yourself but who does that these days, right? So sure, I will answer your questions, just because you asked. 1. They announced that AF447 was missing about 8 HOURS after they lost contact, and 25 MINUTES after it was supposed to have landed. 2. Air France only decided the situation was serious and set up their crisis centre 5.5 hours after they lost contact. 3. AF447 was an Airbus A330-203, which is SMALLER than the Boeing 777-200ER that is MH370. 4. The Atlantic Ocean is certainly larger than the South China Sea. Now, I hope you are not asking for the sake of asking. Those facts I just listed can be Googled very easily. Try it. You will be surprised how easy it is to Google. Wang Jun Lem Allow me to also add on to further cement why the search has been akin to searching for a needle in a haystack. http://www.themalaymailonline.com/.../boeing-caught-in Kt Lim Adrian, I try to be in neutral position in this issue and more towards facts. Agree on your point for the non-suitability of the deployment of submarine. But don't agree with yr opinion that the way this issue was handled is ok. Have the gov and MAS shared with the public what they did since plane missing from radar until their 1st media briefing? What is the missing action for 5 hrs? As u said each second count in time of emergency. Have all protocols actions follow through? Assume a person is critically sick and c a doc. Though the doc cannot confirm whats wrong after numerous check, the doc should brief the patient what checks been done and explain his condition. Not to ask him to go home and wait for news as the doc does not know whats wrong. Chen Tian Chuin Adrian Wong, RMN has MV Mega Bakti which should be similar to the Swift Rescue by Singapore. Adrian Wong Kt Lim : I never once said that the government and MAS has handled this well. I'm merely pointing out that it is ludicrous to claim that there is a conspiracy to cover things up. 1. There are other participating nations who are not beholden to the government or MAS. Who or what is stopping them from revealing what they know, if there's really a secret? 2. If I were MAS, I would want to be DAMN SURE of my facts before I say anything, because if I am proven wrong later, people will not only say I lied (look at Benghazi) but there's a conspiracy to cover up the facts. Heck, I would most likely be sued. 3. I don't think there's "missing action" for 5 hours. They may not have revealed what they have done, but it's obvious from what's revealed so far that they were trying to contact MH370. In addition, as many pilots have pointed out, losing communications is quite common. 4. Whether protocols were followed or not, that's for investigations to reveal. One thing you can be assured of is that while MAS and the Malaysian government may try to cover up deficiencies on their end, the NTSB is at hand to investigate the whole incident. Would they lie and cover up for the Malaysian government? I think not. 5. Using the analogy, the doctor does NOT know what's wrong. Heck, the patient isn't even there for him to inspect. All we know is that the patient is not where he's supposed to be and many fear he's dead. But until we find the patient, we do not know for sure that : a) he's dead or injured, or b) what's wrong with him Adrian Wong Chen Tian Chuin : Yup, as I understand it, it's been sent to the site as well so that's good news, although they are both useless until MH370 is found. Wang Jun Lem Kt Lim: Further adding on to Adrian's point, you yourself mentioned that "each second counts". I think, unlike what many of us are used to in the country already, silence doesn't always imply non-action. To criticise MH for not revealing information all the time would be akin to the doctor wondering out loud whether the patient has tuberculosis or pneumonia before declaring it a cold. It adds (very) unnecessary emotional baggage on those who are already anxious for any news from MH. In this case, no news would probably be in the best interests of all parties instead of false news. Kt Lim My analogy may not be exactly fit into this case, but the family of the passengers has a right to ask what is going? If a lot of info to be withheld due to secrecy, confirmations and verification, legal concerns, confidentiality, etc, 3 days passed already and details of 1st day action and activity still not fully confirmed and disclosed, I can imagine the frustration of poor affected faimily. Wang Jun Lem Kt Lim: My heart goes out to the families as well, and I cannot claim to understand their anxiety and worry and fear. That said, however, MAS needs to make sure no statements are misconstrued nor inaccurate for their own sake. I think they'd rather take a few water bottles thrown across than a lawsuit claiming they released false information. Kt Lim So u expect the patient to sit patiently and wait for final info from doc as time goes by? People will get more agitated once no info to them. All speculations and conspiracy theory will surface and grow more if not proper info is share. We r human. Farah Abdul Rahim Thnk u adrian. U said it perfectly! Finally - someone who is finally making sense! Wang Jun Lem Kt Lim: To point out the irony in the analogy - yes, that's precisely what doctors do. MAS has offered what doctors have been saying, that there has been no additional information available. I can see why family members are so frustrated, but this is also discounting the fact that the everyone involved in the search operations is probably equally, if not more frustrated that there hasn't been any sort of leads - no bodies, no metal pieces, nothing. While I do sympathize with the family members, I also show sympathy to those who are under tremendous pressure to perform in the operations, but have yet to discover anything to even give them a lead. Kt Lim But the doc will share in details what diagnostic checks been done n explain to the patient. The patient will still appreciate the doc efforts though still not confirmed whats wrong. So how this is handled? Wang Jun Lem Kt Lim: (forgive me if I'm unable to substantiate my points with articles, typing this on a phone) So far, Malaysia Airlines has also refuted and confirmed all sightings in the same breath. Isn't that what their diagnostics would look like? That the matter is under investigation, that certain findings (oil slick, floating yellow object) have been found to have no relation to the subject at hand. As with a diagnostic, all possible scenarios have been layout, ranging from the mid-air disintegration to the terrorist act. As with most preliminary diagnoses, nothing can be ascertained and more time needs to be given. Compound it with the fact that there has been zero findings relevant to the crash so far, and you'll realise that even doctors wouldn't make statements that still have a high chance of being wrong. Which brings me to ask: given the similarities that I've highlighted about the investigation to your example of a doctor's evaluation, why do we not acknowledge the scale and gravity of the matter? Again, I'm only speculating, but judging by how much attention this has been given internationally, I doubt the claims of those who say that the authorities haven't been doing enough. Even they want to jaga muka okay. Lol
Yvonne Chung Wang Jun Lem, lol the pot calling the kettle black. MH370 is a Boeing 777-200ER NOT 300 which has greater variance indeed. Aircraft comparison: Airbus A330-300 vs. Boeing 777-200ER | aviatorjoe.net . The difference is so minimal but generally-speaking, Boeing 777-200ER isn't even in the same generation of Airbus A330. A330 was introduced in Jan 1994 whilst 777-200ER in 1997 in the aviation industry. Is that even a fair comparison to compare the specs of both? However the tragedy of AF447 happened in 2009, 5 years ago where protocols and even technologies should be lesser than now. Did you research thoroughly in your haste to condemn other people, as well? What is/are your questions exactly? And how do you expect people to answer questions pertaining to controversial matters such as politics? Or what to do in an emergency? I do not pretend to be a specialist in aviation or technical expert in Search and Rescue operations. I've mentioned numerous times, I'm just a layman, or did you missed those parts? Number 2) And just what I had mentioned before, the incompetence of Malaysia + lack of protocols i.e. emergency/contingency plans + lack of technical experts. 3) Obviously, you still don't get where most netizens are coming from. So let's just agree to disagree. 4) We are not trying (too hard) to be nitpicking anybody. Especially our government. Yeah, in fact we should be ever grateful to them for whatever that they are feeding us, huh? Really? Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : Come now.. who's doing the comparison in the first place? You are... LOL! You asked, and I quote, "AF447 is an Airbus, is it not? It is bigger than a Boeing, is it not?" Why are you even comparing them in the first place? The size of the airliner is NOTHING compared to the vastness of the ocean. As for these questions, they are the ones you need to ask yourself : "Did you research thoroughly in your haste to condemn other people, as well? What is/are your questions exactly?" You have done nothing but come up with absurd theories and questions, and when proven wrong, you just come up with new ones. I guess you think that saying that you are a layman gives you the excuse to make stuff up? Sorry, but that's just not true. If you want to say that Malaysia is stupid or incompetent, sure, go ahead. Just don't insist that we must agree with you. I may not like the current government but I'm not going to stoop so low as to lie about them, or malign them. It would make me no different from them. Adrian Wong Kt Lim, please remember that the doctor cannot diagnose the patient if he's not around. So far, all the leads have not pan out. I know the lack of information is frustrating, but I think the emotional rollercoaster that could happen if authorities just blurt out every finding is worse. ...The Vietnamese have spotted what looks like the door of the MH370! ...Ladies and gentlemen, it looks like we may have found the crash site. We will deploy the SSRV immediately. - A few hours later... - ...The Vietnamese just reported that it's actually a piece of Styrofoam... Ooops! ...Oh, here's something new. The Singaporeans have spotted a few people in a lifeboat! They are sending their RHIBs to pick them up. We will dispatch all ships there to look for other survivors. - Euphoria! But a few hours later... - ...We picked up them but we regret to inform you that they are fisherman from a fishing boat that sank a day ago. Yvonne Chung @ Adrian Wong, 1) my first question was, how much time had lapsed between the estimated time of arrival (of AF447) before it was announced as “missing” to the public. The answer was 25 minutes by the Air France and not 10 hours – as you previously claimed. That means, at least those people who were waiting for their loved ones at the airport got the news first hand. 2) Crisis center was drawn up at 0715, 2 hours BEFORE the plane was due to land in Paris airport. Malaysian authorities were in total chaos AFTER the plane NEVER showed up in Beijing. That is the difference. 3) yeah, I agree. I have overlooked on that part. But seriously? The specs differences are so minimal. And they are not even in the same generation. And the tragedy happened in 2009. You would have expect technology and past experiences should make people smarter, faster and more efficient or competent. No? Ahh….the sheer power of Google. Where nobody can live without it in this era. What will humans do without it, indeed. Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : You must learn to read properly. Don't skip over words. Don't pick and choose what you want to read. 1. I've already answered your question, which I quote here for your benefit - "They announced that AF447 was missing about 8 HOURS after they lost contact, and 25 MINUTES after it was supposed to have landed." As for your claim that I said they announced it 10 hours later, that's just not true, is it? I said, and I quote, "It took them 10 hours BEFORE a search team was actually dispatched." 2. How do you know MAS didn't set up a crisis center before announcing that MH370 was lost? Do you have any evidence or are you just speculating "out of the box" again? 3. No, you were attempting to BS your way into showing that it's harder to find AF447 because it's a smaller plane in a larger ocean. You know I know, and I know you know I know. Indeed, which is why you should try it sometime. Don't just rely on imagination. Try backing it up with logic and evidence. Think of that as... "thinking outside the box". Norita Ishak Dear Adrian Wong may i share all this Adrian Wong Norita Ishak : Please feel free to share it. I intentionally made it public for people to share. Norita Ishak Thanx! Yvonne Chung Adrian Wong, making things up? Correct me if I'm wrong. I've had said "I am a layman" since the beginning of my posts. Theories aside - which are strictly personal and for which I regretted very much for blurting it out in the first place - you too have failed to convince the majority of netizens and foreign press and Chinese nationals in your defence of the Malaysian authorities. And no, I too, am not on a mission to try to dissuade you to follow my beliefs. As I said before too, it is up to every individual to choose what they want to believe in. Having said that, you shouldn't try too hard, yourself, to impose your "technical knowledge" of submarines on others. Others may not agree. But at the very least, we do agree on 1 thing. And that is, the Msian authorities did not handle the whole thing well. That's quite a broad statement but whatever LOL. I will rest my case now. Thank you for your precious time and attention. Hope I didn't make you too tiresome. LOL. VI Dev Aryan first and foremost, adrian, you really did well in coping with what i know as intolerable comments on your post. number 1. be reminded that you dont have to be a navy officer to know anything about submarines. it is about seeking knowledge through careful research and analytically studying facts before finally accepting something as knowledge or simply balderdash. like you, i had trouble fending off unreasonable and petty ideas, philosophies and conspiracy theories some other place and when i was some how routed here,by God's grace, i knew that i am not the only one having that much fun.. still, i agree that the Scorpenes are not at all suitable for the SAR mission simply ( meaning simple for those who have overdeveloped assumptive thinking) they dont have what a SAR submarine needs. and of course, i dont want to go on and on, on the proposition of this idea as having read the conversation thread, the distinction is clear. Adrian has managed to get the message through very well. that said, i think i would need to enlighten some overly worried individuals here on certain issues regarding this catastrophe. here we go: so let us start analyzing the situation and issues surrounding this tense situation. 1) Why aren't Malaysian Scorpenes submarines used for MH370 search and rescue and why Singapore is sending a submarine support-and-rescue vessel - Singapore is sending a support and rescue submersible (submarine) vessel. This vehicle is small and is equipped with the necessary equipment for support and rescue operations. The vehicle is normally fast-shipped (in this case, on Singapore's shp "MV Swift Rescue") to the location and dropped into the waters. - Scorpenes are war submarines that is not used for search and rescue operations. They are also slow at 37km/h and would take them a long time to reach the Vietnam coast and hence not used as first responders in any search and rescue operations. In fact, the Scorpenese don't even have windows to look out from! Therefore, if you see any persons or politicians still asking why Malaysia has not sent our Scorpene submarines on the MH370 operation, please educate them before they look even more ignorant. these are facts, adapted from various sources and most importantly from A logical and rational mindset. 2) Why is MAS and the Malaysia Government quiet about the crashes? what are they hiding? ( lol hiding it seems.. they weren't hiding.. you were hiding when they gave you half-hour update for these 2 days on the situation) MAS and Malaysia Govt are under world-wide scrutiny and will be the final authoritative source of information regarding MH370. We need to remember that MH370 was carrying passengers from 15 different different countries and this missing MH370 news has drawn 24hours coverage from the major world news agencies. MAS and our govt are expected to be experiencing intense pressure from the various embassies and media agencies for the latest news. At the very least, this may contribute to some delay and difficulty in the flow of information. Any information that MAS and Malaysia govt releases will be treated as official and the final word. Because of this, MAS and Malaysian govt cannot afford to release speculative news and make an untrue statement that they have to withdraw later. Please understand the situation. this has nothing to do with pro-kerajaan or whatsoever. it has to do with facts and if u agree, facts come from logic and reasoning. 2. MAS and Malaysia Govt are not Media organizations Any airlines and govt will need to follow proper procedures before updating anything related to any incident. Any information needs to be double, triple checked, or risk being sued. They are NOT news agencies competing for first breaking news and making speculations. Instead, they have responsibilities to inform their paying customers first before informing the public. So, for those who are blaming MAS and the Govt for being slow, please understand that, and please be FAIR in your comments. some news have to be confirmed first before deciding what is true and what isnt'. that takes time.. 3. Diplomatic Relations and coordination with a 5 countries search team Although MH370 is owned by Malaysia's MAS, the area where the plane went missing is in Vietnamese territories. Hence, It is natural that any initial search or rescue operations would be conducted by the Vietnamese authorities while Malaysia and the other countries' ships and planes get organized, obtain approval from Vietnam govt and travel to that area and this will simply take time. It is not for the lack of trying. The Malaysian govt have already sent 15 planes and 9 ships to the area. Please understand the conditions. 4. Not as easy as you think it is The incident has puzzled authorities and aviation experts as there were no reports of bad weather and no sign of why MH370, which has multiple transmitters to indicate its location during a failure, vanished from radar screens., There would normally have been some type of reporting, whether through the radios or the computer system. Even the ill-fated Air France Flight 447 in 20009 had relayed flight errors to the manufacturer's HQ before it went missing which is not the case for MH370. Rescuers only managed to retrieve bodies and debris from the Air France plane after several days, while investigators took two years to get to the main wreckage including black boxes. The sea area where the plane is suspected to be missing in is very wide and deep. Even sending boats sent from Vietnam's coast to the reported two oil slicks requires 3-4 hours sailing time. And by the time the ships reach the oil-slicks, it is possible that strong currents would have carried the oil-slicks far away from the original location and the wreckage, if any, had sunk so deep into the sea that finding and pin-pointing it will be very difficult. Aviation experts have predicted a difficult search ahead and have warned of an expensive search and rescue operation that could cost millions and even billions of dollars. "The deeper you get, the harder it is to see. It's very expensive and very technical work. Just trying to get the proper people assembled usually takes quite a bit of time. We can understand the anxiousness, impatience and feeling of desperation from the relatives and friends of the MH370 passengers but there are no easy answers for them other than to tell them the planes and ships are on-the-way, the search is still on-going and the authorities are doing their best. We can only empathize with the relatives and friends and together, we hope for the best. Ivan Ng sorry.. if i'm reading this correctly, the layman does not know what to do in an emergency or how SAR operations are conducted but knows that the Gov/MAS is incompetent, lacks technical experts, lacks protocols and is selling us lies.. hmmm.... Yvonne Chung Sorry. I just had to reply. LOL you just HAVE to have the last words don't you? Yes, I am assuming that my government or MAS didn't have any contingency or emergency plan(s) BEFORE a crisis is actually staring right in the face. Can you blame us, in all honesty? Okok...let's just give them the benefits of the doubt then. Do you, too, have evidence of that? Or you are speculating? Or perhaps googling from TV3 or local mainstream medias? 3) There you go again, BS is your own perspective. Logics will tell you, a (slightly) smaller plane on the 2nd largest ocean against a slightly bigger plane on a smaller area, supposedly. C'mon now. And please, I have tried my best to be diplomatic here, if you can carefully "read between the lines" instead of just non-skipping over words. You know, imagination is a great thing. Most genius are born from it. You should try it sometime. Don't just be a google-hog. Wang Jun Lem Yvonne Chung: I concede that the comparison with the 777-300ER was an error on my part. My question? Simple. "What is your point?" You have been driving the argument in circles without making a point, only making very blunt attacks on all sides, and then attempting to pass it off as a politically neutral argument. Your defense of being a "layman" is tiring - you are on one hand telling everyone that you have no technical expertise and posit your own theories, and on the other shooting down the others who have their own theories (more well-researched and less "because the government has done x, therefore they will do y again based on the same trend"). Your idea of "logic" has clearly been illogical to the rest of the world, because we still have no signs of where the aircraft is, despite the concerted efforts of countries unrelated to Malaysia. Are you going to back off again and say "this is just a layman's perspective"? Then wherein lies the weight of your words, or has this been just simple rhetoric to further your agenda of showing how the government has made yet another mistake (which we are all too familiar with, thank you very much)? "Yeah, in fact we should be ever grateful to them for whatever that they are feeding us, huh? Really?" Give me a break. You have shown yourself to be nothing but a cynic, despite your self-declared attempts to "be diplomatic". Syed Hidayat I wonder why this statement were used during the purchase of the subs in 2009.. "Naval officials said the submarine would be based in Sabah state, on Borneo island, where it will undergo fine-tuning before it is deployed in search and rescue and military exercises" Now, did some one are trying to bullshit all malaysian people? AFP: Malaysia's first ever submarine arrives to acclaim Wang Jun Lem Syed Hidayat: It's already been mentioned above that the use of the submarines make no sense, and will be more of a burden than of help in this situation. Just because the Scorpene can do SAR exercises, doesn't mean it should, because it was designed for military purposes in the first place. We might not agree (to put it lightly) with the decision of buying the subs in the first place, but to bring it for a SAR mission would be to nullify any reason why the subs were bought in the first place, ie. stealth and attack operations. Chen Tian Chuin "Or perhaps googling from TV3 or local mainstream medias?" "But merely have the guts and honour to inform and tell the families concerned, the TRUTH. And not to withhold information! " If you're implying that nothing on the mainstream media can be believed, which channel then do you think MAS should release the information thru? release on mainstream media and you might say it's unreliable, not releasing the news and you'll say that they are withholding the truth. Imagination is a great thing indeed. Someone must have paid someone to detonate a C4 and caused the disappearance of MH370. IS my imagination good enough? Wang Jun Lem Syed Hidayat: I refer to this comment and the one immediately below it: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...omment_id=1821755&offset=0&total_comments=217 Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : It doesn't matter if you are a layperson or an expert. If you are wrong, you are wrong, period. A polite person would say "I'm wrong about this, sorry." or "I concede the point to you". But never mind about etiquette. Can you just stop making stuff up? It's not my job to convince anyone. But that doesn't mean I will not correct you if you are making stuff up. And stop using "Oh, but I'm just a layperson" as an excuse. You are an adult. Please act like one. You ask baited questions, thinking you can trap me into agreeing with you. When you got caught, you actually tried to tai-chi it to someone else. Seriously, have the decency to accept responsibility for your own actions. As for defending the "Malaysian authorities", I'm not interested in that. I'm only defending the truth. If you have evidence that MAS and/or the Malaysian government committed some kind of crime, or is intentionally covering up the MH370 incident, or is somehow involved in its disappearance, please just EXPOSE THEM. You have my full support! Jerre Lien Adrian Wong.. u are so funny.. u never failed to make me laugh till my stomach hurts.. Love ur descriptive comments... very articulate & informative.. u make a great unintentional comedian with facts.. kakaka.. LMAO.. Adrian Wong LOL! Glad I brightened up your day. We all need a good laugh these days. Take it as a healthy debate no doubt... no hard feelings. As is said " when in doubt ..ask " Syed Hidayat Wah...so long the other comment.havent have time to read through all of it.but soon i will give you a strong evidence about the scorpene subs which you may use it to refer..but before that i want to double confirm from you first.. "How strong is your belive about the statement scorpene was not capble to do such as the list of what i may say it a 'denial'?who belive it was ever be true??? Refering to this link..of course: https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=597719310322109... For those who ever belive on it ,May i see your hands pls!!! Jerre Lien Yes Adrian Wong im so glad I stumbled across your post today... after reading a few post & comments here & there suddenly I got HOOKED... its like watching the best part of the movie or reading the best plot in a book & then u wonder whats at the beginning?? So I scrolled up & clicked on the "load previous comments" again & again to discover what seemed like a very long & serious topic, one which is like an ongoing debate about the effectiveness of deploying a submarine that was built for WAR & not for SAR. After spending 1hour+ reading the endless comments by keyboard warriors & contributors... I actually learnt a lot from here.I am well informed. I enjoyed reading the thorough dissemination of knowledge to readers like us. I applaud u for your generous effort in trashing out the myths, rumours & lies that are spreading like wildfires over an isolated incident. Yes instead sitting here & just bashing the govt with unkind words, what can we do to contribute to the tragedy of MH370? I think we should all offer ourselves in prayer for the families of the lost/missing victims. Or perhaps contribute money to charity. Be kind & hopeful instead of being angry & trying to point/shout out the faults of authorities & plane manufacturers. Even if u jail the authorities, blame the airlines, the submarines, the pilots & manufacturers, ALL of THAT may not bring back all the lives of those victims of whatever Act of Man/God that befelled them... let us all be thankful we are still alive & help those who are unfortunate whenever we can.. Adrian Wong Syed Hidayat : I raise my hand to ask you to please present your points. Thank you. Vivienne Wong Adrian Wong may i ask abt this? > Google Earth is a virtual globe, map and geographical information program that was originally called EarthViewer 3D. It maps the Earth by the superimposition of images obtained from satellite imagery, aerial photography and GIS 3D globe. < The images shown are taken hourly or what? Adrian Wong Vivienne Wong : Google Earth's maps are not live, or necessarily updated often. In less important areas, I think they are like updated every 6-12 months? They are working on a mini-satellite programme which will provide constant updates, if I'm not mistaken but it's not ready for use. That said, there is a crowdsourcing effort to examine the latest satellite images online in the search for MH370. We can all volunteer our time and effort to look out for any signs of #MH370. Vivienne Wong Can u check this out Adrian Wong ? Zoom in on the small island there. > Adrian Wong I doubt they are the latest photos. Let's not forget that when MH370 was supposed to be in Vietnam, it would have to be around 2-3 am. In any case, this is the link for the website that is crowdsourcing for help to inspect the latest satellite photos - http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014 It appears to be down for now. Maybe too many volunteers... Vivienne Wong Could not open connection to database server Adrian Wong Yeah, it's down at the moment. Vivienne Wong Trying to volunteer but still "saving" ......... Vivienne Wong Btw Adrian Wong thanks for the enlightenment !! You are one in a million Adrian Wong Thanks for the kind words, Vivienne Wong, but we are all one in a million in our own ways. Vivienne Wong Touched by an angel Got to salute u for your patience and still being a gentleman mah. Unlike some who would get abusive. Chen Tian Chuin "The last time the plane was detected was near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am," Berita Harian quotes Rodzali as saying. MH370 detected above Malacca Straits at 2.40am Adrian Wong Chen Tian Chuin : Apparently, he denies it now...
Wang Jun Lem Syed Hidayat: I think we already agreed quite a few comments ago that the Scorpene can do SAR. The point is, there's no need for Scorpene in this SAR. There's a difference between "Scorpene can" and "Scorpene should". And yes Adrian Wong, awesome job! I've tried my best to help you with the arguments too. Heh Adrian Wong Wang Jun Lem : Really appreciate the help! Vivienne Wong Same here ... So tell me who is telling the truth??? DCA said 5 people did not go onboard and already had their luggage REMOVED .. IGP said everyone was onboard , then whose luggage were removed by airport staffs ??? Everyone who checked in, boarded flight MH370, says Khalid - The Malaysian Insider Nicholas Foo Adrian Wong Wang Jun Lem Chen Tian Chuin Huge respect for the amount of patience you guys have! Adrian Wong Vivienne Wong : I think this shows that they had a lot of security lapses. They may have been a discrepancy in the check-in butts, and they may not have done a head count to double-check. This is just going to make them look stupid. Wang Jun Lem Vivienne Wong MAS issued a statement that those who bought the tickets didn't check in. That pretty much confirms that the people weren't on board and never did turn up. (I think you can check their Facebook page for information.) Vivienne Wong Errrr.... do they look "African" or like the Italian footballer Mario Balotelli??? #smh mmt FLASHBACK > Malaysia's civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman has suggested that the two passengers who were travelling on stolen passports on the missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 looked like black Italian footballer Mario Balotelli. Interpol reveals identity of second dubious MH370 passenger - An Iranian named Delavar Seyed Mohd Reza was today identified as the second person who boarded missing Malaysia Airlines (MAS) MH370 using a stolen passport, according to international law enforcement agency Interpol. This follows a revelation by Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar this afternoon that another Iranian, 19-year-old Pouria Nour Mohammad Mehrdad, had used a stolen Austrian passport to board the flight that is now missing for over three days. Speaking at a press conference in France today, Interpol secretary general Ronald Noble confirmed that both Iranians had arrived in Kuala Lumpur together using their Iranian passports. “The two landed on February 28 using their Iranian passports,” Noble said. “They then boarded flight MH370.” Noble also said that disappearance of MH370 did not appear to involve foul play. “The more information we get, the more we are inclined to conclude it is not a terrorist incident.” Noble pointed out that attention over the duo that had been burning when terrorism was suspected was now waning when it appeared that the use of the stolen passports was pointing to the more mundane “people smuggling”. He then repeated his warning that more than a billion people had boarded international flights using stolen passports in the previous year, and pointed to the fact that the perpetrators of the September 11, 2011 terrorist attacks had entered the US using stolen passports. Pouria had boarded using a passport stolen from Austrian Christian Kozel, while Delavar used another belonging to Italian Luigi Maraldi. The revelation had previously fuelled speculation of foul play in the case of MH370’s disappearance. Data had revealed that the tickets for Pouria and Delavar were purchased with cash in Phuket, Thailand and were for one-way. But the Thai travel agent who arranged for the tickets later spoke to the media to discount the possibility of terrorism involving the duo, explaining that she was asked to book the cheapest available for the two, which turned out to be ones that involved a transit flight on MH370. Despite today’s revelations, the IGP maintained that terrorism has not been ruled out in the case of the missing MAS flight. Wang Jun Lem Sorry. It's a wee bit inconvenient to operate on the phone. But here you go, the press release. MH370 Flight Incident | Malaysia Airlines Adrian Wong Vivienne Wong : Exactly! -> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=265259566968675 Yvonne Chung You know, this is beginning to tire me. 1) on “making stuff” up – what exactly have I said that seems to you, is stuff being made up? Other than the political “idea” – which I had agree and already expressed my regret for blurting out without thinking. That was the one big blunder that I have admitted. But political matters have always been controversial and subject to personal opinions. Disregarding my political allegiance, I see no other “make up stuff” that I have committed. So please stop harping on my political allegiance and that goes for you too, @ Wang Jun Lem. I am not here to please people or to get agreement or supports or words of encouragement, whatever. You, on the other hand, claimed people of ad hominem attack, which I can say that you have done as well. Talk about slander. I asked questions merely to seek confirmation and for the enjoyment of some good discussion. Seriously, you need to stop asking people to google this and that and mocking each and everyone who didn’t. You are an adult too. Please act like one. Being a layman is a reality. At least I dare to admit it and am speaking a fact which I have been doing all along. Unlike you, who only knows how to google for information. From my very first post, I never disputed on your findings of the Scorpene. For the most part, I am only questioning on the competence of our local authorities but here’s where things started to get defensive and you couldn’t really disprove most of my comments. Most of my comments thus far, have been riddled with satires, yes, and perhaps some snide comments but they are mostly targeted at the authorities. On the other hand, you resorted to ad hominem attacks. Numerous times. Which I found to be very – how should I put it – low bordering on disparagement. You said that you are a direct person. Well, I can’t stand confrontations. Is this straightforward enough? My style is mostly skeptical – until proven otherwise by hardcore evidence or at the very least, convinced beyond reasonable doubt. You said you “are not interested” in defending the Malaysian authorities. Well fine, whatever. But I can assure you, there is no intention or whatsoever of “trapping you into agreeing with me”. Seriously, what the hell? You see? You misunderstood my POV into some …insidious intentions. Yeah, that’s the vibes I’m getting now. Now come on…PLEASE – since you like it very much – stop using my cardinal mistake of blurting out some very very private (political) thoughts to attack me. Just STOP okay? At the end of the day, citizens are free to follow their own allegiance. I never really SAID our govt HAD committed crimes against the citizens. It was merely my own opinions. What does it matter to you, what my political allegiance is? Finally, this discussion has gone on for far too long, spiraling out of control into ad hominem attacks and off-topic. Not that I really mind (or afraid) but I don’t think it will serve any fruitful purpose anymore. Hence I shall stop because 1) this is tiring ME, not just you alone; 2) inability to see eye-to-eye or even agree to disagree or to respect each other; and 3) if it gets more serious, then the blacklist option is very handy – which I’m about to do in a moment – and I highly suggest you to do the same. P.s. @ Wang Jun Lem, I am diplomatic, for the most part and most of the time but not when it comes to my government, who had failed me time and again from past experience. But that is not your business, isn’t it? p.p.s. You might want to know, one of your “fan” @ Norita Ishak even resorted to stalk my profile and then, had the audacity to even claimed “not impressed” and “not worth 1 cent” on another post of mine. *phewww*….guess I’m not the only one NOT acting like an adult here. Jeffrey Ong Thanks for explaining this and I appreciate it. Is really tiring to see all those comments hammering the government for nothing. I believe they are doing their best to find MH370.
Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung : It appears that you have blocked my replies but that's okay. I will still respond to your allegations. Allegation no. 1. - on “making stuff” up – what exactly have I said that seems to you, is stuff being made up? a) You said - "Try to google the internet on information about AF447. That plane crashed at 0214. Contacts were attempted and by 0400, aerial search was already launched." The truth? The aerial search was only launched 10 hours later. Air France didn't actually consider it serious until 5.5 hours after they lost contact. b) Do you know how big a black box is? And how the ocean bed is? The black box is embedded INSIDE the ocean floor. The truth? We don't even know if MH370 crashed, much less crash into the sea. So how do you know that the black box is embedded INSIDE the ocean floor? No one knows that. The black boxes are usually stored in the tail section, which would allow them better chances of surviving impact. c) When you got caught trying to make a baseless comparison between the A330 and the B777, you had the temerity to get all indignant and blame it on Wang Jun Lem. That's rich. d) You said - "my first question was, how much time had lapsed between the estimated time of arrival (of AF447) before it was announced as “missing” to the public. The answer was 25 minutes by the Air France and not 10 hours – as you previously claimed." The truth? I was the one who told you it was 25 minutes. The 10 hours mentioned was the time it took them to dispatch a search team. e) You said - "Crisis center was drawn up at 0715, 2 hours BEFORE the plane was due to land in Paris airport. Malaysian authorities were in total chaos AFTER the plane NEVER showed up in Beijing." I have no idea when MAS activated their crisis team or centre, but you obviously don't know anything but just made it up. f) You said - "at the very least, we do agree on 1 thing. And that is, the Msian authorities did not handle the whole thing well. That's quite a broad statement but whatever LOL" I never actually said that. You just made that up. LOL Adrian Wong Allegation No. 2 - "Other than the political “idea” – which I had agree and already expressed my regret for blurting out without thinking. That was the one big blunder that I have admitted. But political matters have always been controversial and subject to personal opinions. Disregarding my political allegiance, I see no other “make up stuff” that I have committed. So please stop harping on my political allegiance" Stop harping on your political allegiance? LOL! No one here cares about your political opinions or allegiance. Did anyone ever question you about it? No, but you kept on rambling about how the government lies, even after you said you would not talk about such matters. #facepalm Look - if you have evidence they lied, please - expose them by all means. I find them incompetent and corrupt myself. But that doesn't mean you get to make stuff up, just because you don't like them. If you do so, you are NO BETTER THAN THEM. Adrian Wong Allegation No. 3 - "You, on the other hand, claimed people of ad hominem attack, which I can say that you have done as well. Talk about slander." I have only accused a single person of ad hominem attack, and that's Raymond Silver Tron because he questioned my professional credentials instead of my points. In fact, you wanted to give him "Thousand "likes" if I could give." LOL You accuse me of ad hominem attacks and slander? My good lady, those words do NOT mean what you think they mean. Please consult a dictionary. And if you still feel I've slandered you, please feel free to QUOTE ME. Adrian Wong Allegation No. 4 - "PLEASE – since you like it very much – stop using my cardinal mistake of blurting out some very very private (political) thoughts to attack me. Just STOP okay? At the end of the day, citizens are free to follow their own allegiance." First of all, I don't give two hoots who you support. Since when did I ever mention your political allegiance or mocked you for it? How to stop if I never even started? Get a grip on yourself. Wang Jun Lem Yvonne Chung, I thank you for your reply. No sarcasm, for real - I'm glad that you've given me a chance to understand your point of view from your post. 1) to dwelve into politics a little, only on this point, do enlighten me on the attacks I have done on your political allegiance. No, really: I don't recall a time where I've lambasted you on your views specifically on the government. (I don't think I showed it clearly, but I am not a supporter of the government, either.) I did, however, point out that there was no reason to politicize an apolitical topic such as the tragedy that befell MH370. I might have sounded extremely frustrated, in which case, I do apologise. But the fact is, such a problem shouldn't be considered the fault of the government when experts all around the world agree this has been by far the most baffling aviation incident. We have many more things to be frustrated about, and for which the government should be condemned for, especially with the recent politically motivated rulings. But I don't see how this aviation incident should have to be dragged into politics. </politics> 2) What is wrong with being a layman and Googling for information? I believe the whole point of a discussion here (which, again, I emphasise, should be apolitical) is to obtain more information and find out the truth of the matter, as far as possible. I don't see why one should shun obtaining more information on a subject matter before actually talking about stuff. I think we've seen enough politicians from both sides of the divide who don't know A from Z. It is precisely how clueless some of our society's leaders are on subject matters, that I vow to actively avoid speaking on topics until I am confident I have enough information to take a stance. I really don't see how asking for more effort on the part of people who post on the internet to first verify and corroborate their sources is wrong. It's easy to fire salvos at the enemy, but at least make them factually sound? Otherwise we'd be as clueless and empty about reality as the people who we try to blame. 3) The reason why I felt strongly enough to defend the authorities is that I feel they have also been trying their best. Nobody wanted this to happen, nobody expected this to happen. Of course, there have been flip-flops from the extremely redundant people (Home Minister and his "why so stupid cannot tell apart Asians from Europeans", for example), but I believe there is sincerity in attempting to resolve the missing MH370 episode. I say, give credit where credit is due. If they do something wrong (like the messup DCA did about the 5 missing passengers), then blast them for all I care. But until then, I don't see anything they've done wrong, especially not when there has been zero results, even with the concerted effort of the many countries that have chipped in their help. 4) I have no fans. lol. Adrian Wong Allegation No. 5 - "I never really SAID our govt HAD committed crimes against the citizens." Well, I don't care what you think of the government but you did mention a few times that the government had committed crimes against the citizens. I'm not criticizing you, just pointing out that you have yet again "made stuff up". - I am talking about the discovery of those fishermen. Some powerful people might *ehem* "bought* them. - I am not asking our govt or the authorities to declare a state of emergency. But merely have the guts and honour to inform and tell the families concerned, the TRUTH. And not to withhold information! - Is the govt lying? Sure. As do every govt in the world. At the very least, withholding informations to the public. No protocols? Yep. Wang Jun Lem Adrian Wong: I think she's already conceded (and mentioned that she regretted) the expression of her political viewpoints. I think it's best to give her some breathing space. heh. The discussion is counterproductive if one is not given space to concede one's mistakes. Adrian Wong Yvonne Chung - You ended your tirade with this statement - " if it gets more serious, then the blacklist option is very handy – which I’m about to do in a moment – and I highly suggest you to do the same." Well, if it gets more serious? BEFORE I can even reply, you already blacklisted me. LOL! No, I don't blacklist people, even those who disagree with me. Don't worry about me stalking you either. I have better things to do than stalk you. LOL! Chen Tian Chuin anyway they didn't said that 2 people who used the stolen passports look like Balotelli, what he meant that african descent can have european passport too, and we shouldn't judge one's nationality from his appearance. Adrian Wong Wang Jun Lem : Sorry, I didn't see your replies until I posted them all. Now, I feel so bad. It's not her concession I want. I just want her to stop making stuff up. How is anyone supposed to have a proper debate if you just make stuff up? Oh well... Wong Tze Wei dayummnnn u can write a book. together with the lady. shes entertaining. Adrian Wong Chen Tian Chuin : I saw the press conference and he did say that they look like Balotelli, which is why some news agencies reported that these two guys are black or of the African ethnicity. Wang Jun Lem Adrian Wong: no worries. I can understand. hahahah Syed Hidayat this is for you guys..but sorry this the only best resolution i could find.this just like a short briefing video..if i'm not mistaken,there were some more length video about this scorpene documentary. i remember i have watch this kind of promo video last 1-2 years regarding the scorpene class subs directly from the source/manufacturer video.. but now wonder why could not find them.. Adrian Wong Good find! Syed Hidayat although i do agree with the security point of view and why it was not allowed to be used in the mh370 ops but the statement denying the capability of the subs is totally unacceptable...for me..if such of subs which cant do this cant do that things then why need to buy such a piece of hardwares?some more at a premium price..? anyway...god bless malaysia from being shamed by some official people who easily make a statement same as a keyboard warrior in the cyberspace without any strong facts and figures Adrian Wong Syed Hidayat : Check out the statement that the Chief of Navy just released. I added it to the bottom of my original post above. Vivienne Wong Regards MH370 detected near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am...Is this weird? > Busted! Flight Radar Caught Changing Flight Path of Malaysia Flight 370! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c Published on Mar 9, 2014 All the proof is right here. The first link will be to the first video showing it going down off Malaysia's coast. The second is to Flight Radar! First Video: Radar Playback of the Moment Malaysia Flight 370 Vanished! - YouTube Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! Wang Jun Lem Malaysian military now reveals it tracked MH370 to the Malacca strait - The Malaysian Insider ... Are you ****ing kidding me? Adrian Wong If I remember correctly, they already lost contact with MH370 by 1:22 am, so there was no transponder signal at all. Later, military radar was able to track it, so maybe that's what the change was about : "Beyond this point, Malaysian military radar tracked a change in heading to the west and a reduced altitude, sustained until tracking was lost over the Malacca Strait, some 500km beyond last contact with civilian air traffic control." Vivienne Wong LOL Wang Jun Lem beat me to it was looking for the same article Adrian Wong Wang Jun Lem : I think they were not sure earlier because MH370 supposedly dropped altitude while changing its direction. Their military radar could have lost sight of it, and when it reappeared, they may not have been very sure it was the same flight. BTW, that's what I think may have happened, not what they said. Vivienne Wong Adrian Wong have u watched the Youtube link i posted above? It shows them altering the flight path?? Wang Jun Lem That's not exactly a very good excuse given the gravity of the information they held. I can only hope that they actually did share this information with the rest of the search teams and the crisis management team, and hopefully someone verified the information way before the announcement was made. Urgh. Syed Hidayat i have watch the flight path disply..they like having trouble above the terenganu airspace and starting to realign their flight trejectory till at the middle of the sea..then sudently it shown like the flight had taking a stif turn and then just...vanished Adrian Wong Vivienne Wong : Yes, but the altered flight path looks bizarre. More like an anomaly than an actual change by the admin since everyone knows it never made it into Vietnamese airspace. Adrian Wong Wang Jun Lem : I'm not excusing them. I don't have any idea what took them so long to come up with this critical information. It's absurd. I would like to think that it is something like that scenario, because to suggest that they would intentionally keep this from us would mean that they may have sacrificed the lives of everyone on MH370 by letting all those ships and planes check an area that they knew MH370 wasn't at. From the little I know, I think this may be one of the few plausible reasons why the military may not be sure that MH370 has gone to the other side of Peninsular Malaysia. After all, radar can only pinpoint the type, size, speed and altitude of the plane but not the actual identity of the plane. Adrian Wong Syed Hidayat : If you check FlightRadar, it looks like these radar anomalies are quite common. At the link he gave, if you quickly scroll to Terengganu, you can see a super fast plane (a different one than he spoke of) moving very fast and then actually disappearing. Also, the flight dropping all the way to 0 feet in an instant? Doesn't seem plausible. More likely that was when the transponder was destroyed or disabled. Vivienne Wong Exactly !! Why put all on a wild goose chase????? Syed Hidayat now its getting more weird... military radar said it fly back to malacca strait n lost signal..and the youtube anomalies shown it made cross the vietnam airspace..there a lot of aircraft on that flight path shown..but none of them reply or even tell that they saw the plane was on that area during that time... now aussie tv playing about the cabin crew who letting people into their cockpit which in all airliner SOP that area should be seal of from any unauthorized/unrelated people . damn drama... Adrian Wong I honestly don't think MH370 ventured into Vietnamese airspace because their military would be tracking those that go out of normal commercial lanes. Surely they would have noticed MH370. Plus, their transponder was already dead by 1:22 am, so how can FlightRadar still track them? Syed Hidayat i have no idea... Vivienne Wong But at 1.30am > A Boeing 777 pilot found "interference" when he was asked by Vietnamese air control to contact flight MH370 before the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER vanished from the air. The captain, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of MH370, told the New Sunday Times that his Narita-bound plane was in Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to use his plane's emergency frequency to contact MH370 as air traffic control had lost contact. "We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace. "The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot. "There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end. "That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he was quoted as saying by the New Sunday Times. B777 pilot contacted MH370 before it vanished, says there was radio ‘interference’ Adrian Wong Yup, they made radio contact with MH370, which was not yet in Vietnamese airspace. That was the last time anyone contacted them. Before that, at 1:22 am, their transponder was no longer transmitting. That's why the Vietnamese air control was asking other pilots to try and contact MH370. Vivienne Wong Still a Mystery shrouding MH370 Hmmmmm..... another conspiracy theory? http://nalurirakyat.blogspot.com/.../update-teori-mh370... Adrian Wong More like a flight of fancy. He's just making things up. Vivienne Wong Yup flight of fantasy!!! Now this guy theory more complex > https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...67933076.1073741829.1427450153&type=1&theater Wang Jun Lem Cannot tahan la. Who said literature is dying? We have so many budding authors with creativities beyond Tolkien's levels Adrian Wong OMG.. That guy's just making things up... Wang Jun Lem omg who say bro. quantm xplain all bro. scintfic proof bro. i dr la bro. giv chance bro. </sarcasm> Adrian Wong He probably studied at the Deepak Chopra school of quantum magic. LOL Eric Cheah MH370 - what happened Adrian Wong Eric Cheah : Read that yesterday. That's one of the more plausible reasons, although I doubt it flew all the way to China. For one thing, it will have to cross the Vietnamese and Chinese airspace WITHOUT their militaries noticing and intercepting it. Very unlikely. I'm thinking that they might have turned back to land after the incident... but they loss consciousness and so it flew over to the Strait of Melaka. Kt Lim That's why the way this issue is handled is ok, effectively and efficiently? All data and info fully reivewed and consolidated? Or still no full info disclosed as still being reviewed, verified and confirmed? Who coordinate the info flow and sharing? Adrian Wong Kt Lim : There's inevitably a lot of CKC (cover kah chng) going on. That may explain why some information was not revealed to them until recently. Then again, there seems to be a clear lack of coordination and cooperation amongst the various agencies. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. I just hope that no one sacrifices MH370 just to save their own asses. Wang Jun Lem Kt Lim: I share your frustration. I'm still waiting for news from the authorities, just like everyone else is. I just hope they'd have slightly less flip-flopping. gah. Kt Lim This tests the capability and competency of the gov and authoriries in crisis management. People look to them for valid info and guidance. If the trust and credibility lost, double time and effort required to rebuild trust and confidence. Kt Lim Then even if the truth is shared, you cannot blame people if they have doubts and a lot of questions on it. Julz Abt II The top priority right now is to locate the missing aircraft...everything else is secondary
