The Perpetual F1 Thread!

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Chai, Apr 19, 2003.

  1. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Honestly, I already have enough discussion on F1 technology on other F1 forums, and everyone has concluded that F1 bring almost nothing to road cars, other than Ferrari road cars. Carbon parts, how many road cars has them? How many cars are using CF monocoque? F1 cars are never durable, parts on road cars are completely different, one for performance, one for reliability. Have you seen the weight difference of the cam shaft of an F1 engine and road car engine?

    "F1 style gearbox with changing gears behind the wheel", most cars are merely auto gearbox with buttons... Except for certain high performance cars like Ferrari, BMW, but even then, it's nothing like what's on F1 cars.

    VTEC is one of the very few exceptions that I would agree with you. TBH, most of the technology comes from very very high end road cars like S-Class, like air bag etc... that never exists on F1 cars.

    What's the big deal with engine capacity change??? We have so many power reduction rules since the 80s, and I don't see any problem with that, so is downforce reduction (provided it's done properly)! I'm not interested in seeing 2000BHP cars without needing to slow down for Eau Rouge.

    The problems with the new rules this season make the competition really bad.

    - Point system: So Alonso with have to just keep scoring points for the remaining half of the season to win the world champion. Very nice.

    - Engine change penalty: Hurts the team and driver badly. But most spectators want to see the best driver winning the world champion, which is not the case this season.

    - No tyre change: Hurts Bridgestone runners this season, and many suffered punctures and risking safety.

    This season is so boring, I really feel like quit watching F1. Speed doesn't win. Luck does. ;)
  2. PsYkHoTiK

    PsYkHoTiK Admin nerd

    I dun really watch F1 anymore... FIA sucks...
    1 person likes this.
  3. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Like PsYkHoTiK said....FIA sucks...not F1! :clap: :dance: :mrgreen:

    And CHAI...I agree that majority of road cars will never use those inventions and improvements from F1 (and its logical that they cant be just transfered directly from F1 into road cars - like you said at cam shaft of F1 - cause its just not "compatible" so adjustments are always needed...)...but they are here...thats all...I dont know (and dont want to judge that) either they improve something or not...but they exist.. ;) And VTEC rocks! (even if its the only invention from F1 - its also the best one that was ever implemented into road cars!) :cool:

    I also agree with you about downforce reduction - but FIA works things...I am just afraid that they will put some strange idea on how to achieve that reduction...that what i am mad about...cause i see from their previous "ideas" that some were completely crazy...(also like at qualifying...although its not about limitation or anyway....they "introduced" that double qualifying model (to add times from 2 sessions)...just to later abandon it...that was also one big miss if someone asks me....also no tyre change and stuff....and points....bad bad bad :wall: :naughty: :doh:

    In example....Alonso now leads with 25 points....and Kimi must now score all 3 wins to be able to win at the the same time...its enough for Alonso to finish 3rd in one of remaining 3 races (and may park his car and drink coffee at other 2 races) but he will still be the champion... :wall: :evil: With older scoring system all that wouldnt happen for sure...there just need to be a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd....otherwise it will be as it is this year....that luck will play major role in determining the champion... :? :doh:

    I just wonder how those new engines will work in "real-life" situations (btw...FIA always said its interesting in cutting costs for teams...but to make completely new engines costs much more that to maybe put some top-speed limitators onto existing ones - in case that their aim is to limit top speed of F1 by introducing 2.4 V8's!?? Otherwise I really dont see anything positive in all that(that wont make them safer if thats what they want us to believe) I dont know...I'll wait and see how things will work... :wicked: )

    Its boring yes...but it seems that those old bold men at FIA dont see that....or maybe they need new glasses ASAP....cause otherwise it might be too late...and someone might kick their a55es from their CEO's chairs (which would surely bring better and more competitive TRUE RACING)... :mrgreen: :haha: :thumb:

    Good luck in 2006 season! :mrgreen: ;) :wave:
  4. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    I think you misunderstood my point.

    It's never practical to use ultra light weight and strong cam shaft on road cars because of cost and reliability issues, not because it's not 'compatible'. :D After all, they are still cam shafts.

    F1 has been going down hill really bad since 2003 when they altered the rules...
    1 person likes this.
  5. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... :mrgreen:

    No, no....I didnt misunderstood your point...maybe my expression was kinda bad....but my "compatibility" was meant exactly for what you not that they arent "compatible" in that way (well they also arent directly, but that wasnt the point :twisted: )...but that they need to be as much cost efficient, reliable and durable as possible to be ideal candidates for road cars. my opinion again :mrgreen: ...if i.e. those F1 gearboxes withstand those extreme forces for 2 races (by today's rules), so some 600+km....then in any average today's car (not counting extreme sport cars here), they would surely last for 200.000km if not more, without any only price remains the biggest problem here i guess...cause i dont know many people that would be happy to pay some US$100,000 (thats just my assumption - so could be much more or less, but it surely costs very much!) for the gearbox of a car that would otherwise cost only some US$10,000.... :wall: :mrgreen: :haha: :nuts: :lol:

    And for the end....I totally agree with what you said here : F1 has been going down hill really bad since 2003 when they altered the rules... :clap: :dance: :thumb: ...and not just BAD....its actually the WORST that could happen to F1... :wall: :doh: :evil:

    Ok, goes on...and we must always be ready for new changes either they suit us or not...but either way....hope is what always lets :pray: for the best outcome for F1 in the future... :wicked: :clap: :dance: :mrgreen: :thumb: ;) :wave:
  6. Mike

    Mike Newbie

    chai's just bored since the ferrari era ended :mrgreen:

    i find myself watching F1 again this season as the results are not as predictable like the previous years when you already know the results before the race. a ferrari 1-2 and who ever comes first would depend on the team orders in play :nuts:

    a lot of fans in aus are now all watching again since the boredom that is ferrari domination is over.
  7. yhng

    yhng Newbie

    Wanna bet? All the suspense is GONE this year. Nevermind the bad luck suffered by Kimi or anything. The fact that there is so little action doesn't make it worth watching any longer. Something really ought to be done with the rules...
  8. Dashken

    Dashken Administrator!

    I don't really watch F1 anymore... it's just boring... and it's always sad to not see MS in Top 8. :cry: :liar:
  9. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Hahaha...Mike, Mike...(or is it Mika? Hakinnen? Could it be? That you actually joined our forum?) :mrgreen: :haha: :haha: :haha:

    Chai isnt bored....because Ferrari era is FAR FROM BEING OVER! :clap: :thumb: One bad year is nothing, compared to many successful ones in the last years... ;)
    If you watched it more often, then you would know that there is no team in the world (and will never be) who could dominate for i.e. 10 years in a row (be it a Ferrari,McLaren,Renault,Honda,etc)....there are always ups and at every other things in our lives...but either you like it or not...Ferrari&MS did GREAT JOB in past year...and Alonso just cant win 5 championships in a row (or even equal 7 total championships) like MS did(2000-2004)...NEVER! It takes superb complete package...driver, car, team, and some luck offcourse...and Alonso surely got lots of luck-we dont doubt that... :p least this year...but he wont be able to keep it up for next 4 years...neither Kimi or someone else would...just keep on watching F1 and you'll see it with your own eyes... :clap: :dance: :mrgreen: :haha: :twisted:

    And maybe you just watch it now because your favourite is Alonso and since he was way back in past years you didnt bothered with watching it before... :wicked: :whistle: :twisted:

    I am also sorry for you...cause as it will be the one to be bored again next year...because of Ferrari's domination again... :beer: :mrgreen: :haha: :thumb:

    Good luck everybody and drive safely... :clap: :thumb: ;) :wave:
  10. mahakanjus

    mahakanjus Newbie

    i agree the rules have gone from bad to worse. why did they change it? i must say because Ferrari creamed everyone when they were resting on their laurels.

    fast forward 2005... Ferrari are getting creamed and time for a new change of rules.

    at least there's still some good racing.
  11. Mike

    Mike Newbie

    actually i've been watching it since 96. i think i was 12 at the time? started following it closely around 99 and it's not as exciting as before for sure. these days i don't have a fav driver anymore as they all retired. i'm just contempt with a new winner every race.

    by 2004 i stopped watching beacuse you pretty much knew what would happen.

    i'm guessing there's just a lot of ferrari fans here? i enjoy it when there are different winners and not a single team dominating. mika hakkinen's 2 year reign was also slightly boring as mclaren at that stage had the package over MS and ferrari.

    now with michelin coming into their own for tyres and the rules all going crazy, at least it's creating some more randomness that i find more interesting than ferrari 1-2's.

    one bad year? i rekon the tables have turned on ferrari as they now find themselves on the wrong tyre and with no testing on michelins at all, even if they changed the pickup will be slow compared to the other teams whom have loads of testing data already.

    i don't like alonso btw, i don't expect him, kimi or anyone else to do anything special. i just want racing without too much predictability. predictable = boring, random = worth watching.

    johnie i guess u misunderstood my point. i don't want domination or 1 super driver to rule over them all.

    umm, not really. i don't know what you mean by suspense. there's plenty of action. maybe you just miss the suspense of seeing ferrari going around the track for a few hours and winning in a 1-2? while i agree the rules are a bit crazy now, at least it's mixing them up.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2005
  12. yhng

    yhng Newbie

    I was never a ferrari fan to make things clear. The fact that there's so little overtaking etc makes it boring. Really, seeing an engine failure isnt action. Nor is seeing Alonso leading the driver's championship by doing nothing suspense. If only they had the dogfight of Mika and Schumi then :cry:
  13. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Yeah, just because I have a Ferrari logo as my avatar doesn't mean I'm only watching for Ferrari. Have you not been reading what I wrote? :rolleyes:

    I'm getting extremely bored because the fastest driver is not getting what he deserved. I have more F1 videos than most people have pr0ns! :haha: I have seen enough history to make such comments, even though I only started following F1 recently. All the rules are favouring Alonso so badly, Kimi doesn't even have a chance to beat Alonso.

    Mika vs Schumi was really one of the best fights in recent years. How often you get to see friendly rivalry? I don't recall... :lol:

    I always wanted to watch the fastest driver winning the race and the championship, doesn't matter if he leads from the start or winning from the back, not like some driver who drives slowly and just good enough to win the WDC. :roll:

    If you want racing without predictability, PLEASE switch channel! :thumb:
  14. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    So you missed good old Senna times, Mike....too bad... :? :shifty: Now THAT WAS REAL RACING!...Senna, Mansel, Prost,Piquet and others....mmmmmmmmmmmmm...miss those days badly... :doh: :think: :thumb:

    But life goes on...and while I agree with you Mike, that too see only 1 driver winning all the time could be boring...but on the other side...I also dont like this randomizer...its like lottery...and not you have 20 cards...and pick them up 1 by 1 to get final results of the race... :mrgreen: :haha: Well its not that bad...but I said many times...its much more about luck than REAL racing knowledge...and that sux...and then there is this "SUPERB" :wall: :haha: :haha: point system....which is even worse... :?

    But who cares...rules are rules...even if not the best ones...they are the same for everyone...I just want to say that with this move FIA didnt make racing more competitive...far away from that... :naughty: :wall:

    And yes...I am, was and will be MS fan (before him it was AS and he would probably still be if he didnt have that sad accident :( :cry: - and if he would still be here...then you may believe me that he would surely make racing competitive!) least I always have only 1 favourite matter if he wins or looses...and I really hate those people who just "go with the flow" and always pick the winner as their champions...I "stand beside him" when he was winning in 94,95...also when Hill and Villeneuve won in 96 and 97...and MH in 98 and 99....and from there on MS again probably year...who knows...but no matter what....MS will be my favourite...cause if you admit it or not....he is the best driver among all that are racing today...even if his car doesnt allow him to win at this time...but nevermind...he will be back...if he was after 4 years of no winning...he will year...or in 2007...but he will...cause he wont stop racing before he wins one more championship...I know his way of thinking from all those years... :clap: :dance: :mrgreen: :haha: ;)

    Ok enough MS...everyone has the right to have his/her own favourite...and thats Ok...and I also rarely say anthing against others...maybe only when someone falsely accused MS of something he didnt do...only then perhaps...cause who cares what we talk and presume here...cause its the race track that shows drivers potential and results... :thumb:

    So who is your favourite then Mike? if not Kimi or Alonso? Who then? Cause everyone has at least some "silent" champion...or you just like to watch F1 cars driving around for 50+ laps...and who wins wins...hahahahaha...then you really shouldnt watch it...waste of time...rather play some lottery...cause its very similar....they use the same random code to get least nowadays...maybe FIA will wake up before its too late....I really hope it will.... :wicked: :p :mrgreen: :haha:

    And you dont want domination of 1 super driver? Why not? you work for FIA? :twisted: :haha: Or why would you try to limit his potential if he is really the best driver around!? Is it bad if he is the best? If others worked so hard and maybe have more real racing potential they would be as good also.... :cool: Others are to blame in such case...not this "best driver"... ;)

    Anyway...I believe you are happy then at the time? Cause there is no domination and everything is randomized? But thats bad and it doesnt show real potential of many drivers...but you dont care about that, huh? :naughty: :doh: :wall:

    Ok enough...have a nice day everybody...and dont take it too personal Mike... :mrgreen: :haha:

    EDITED : Exactly Chai...You said that exactly as it comment... :clap: :dance: :beer: :thumb: ;) you have those videos on CD's or DVD's or on some old VHS's? Could you pack and send much $$$ for that? :wicked: :mrgreen: :think:
  15. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Another problem with the new rules is rewarding consistency. Do you prefer watching the drivers push to the max at all times rather than being hampered with fuel load in qualifying, conserving tyres, engine, not risking a 2nd place for win because the points difference is only 2?

    So many flaws with the rules and yet got 'green light'... :roll:

    I have got about 150 full races, 70s being the oldest, but not all of them in English though. All in digital format. :mrgreen:
  16. ZuePhok

    ZuePhok Just Started

    i think it's more to personal preference..
    some prefer the race to be carried out under a more controlled circumstances..
    while others prefer an entirely max out race..

    my colleague seems to prefer the present regulation..
  17. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Exactly...just look at Alonso's driving in the 2nd half of the season...and you'll see that with curent rules FIA "donated" him drivers champioship already a long time ago (with their "great" rules... :evil: )...

    And yes...they got green light because people like Mike voted for them...HAHAHAHHA....lets face it...some people prefer "randomizer system" to pick up a winner.... :doh: :? :mrgreen:

    So about your 150 races much is that in total then? Some 150Gigs? 300? More? Less? :mrgreen: :haha: Is there some way to zip'em and put them somewhere to be able to download them? I would really like to see them...I believe there are many interesting races which I havent seen yet... :thumb: ;) And how many Millions of $$$ for that? :mrgreen: :haha:
  18. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Nah, the files are too big to be posted... Sorry.

    Zuephok: I'm not blaming your friend, but most 'no-so-big' F1 fans always prefer randomizer, because F1 has always been dominanted by teams or drivers, like Mclaren in 1988 (15 out of 16 wins), Nigel Mansell in 1992, Schumacher in 1995, and your friends are probably not aware of it.

    But the problem with this season is, is Alonso really dominating? Nope. But the total points said so unfortunately thanks to the new rules. Most are probably bored of Ferrari winning and someone else taking over, which is why they think this season is great.

    Most F1 veterans would not agree with that, and this season proved that even if Ferrari is not winning all the time, it's still a bore fest!
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2005
  19. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Noooooo...there must be a way...I have 1 year of time to download them if needed...I just hope you arent on some dial up...cause your upload speed could be the only "problem" here...(well dont worry...if you dont have time to do that its ok too...but it would really be great to see& relive those old races....MANNNNNNN...those were times... :clap: :dance: :wicked: :mrgreen: :haha: )

    100% CORRECT! Those "friends" surely lack of racing history... :mrgreen: And domination always was and will be...and how big it will be...depends on other drivers - how much are they willing to sacrifice to get to the top...and if they arent willing to give 100% at all times...then they rather quit and let other more talented drivers with true racing "hearts" to race instead... :twisted:

    100% CORRECT! Majority is bored or maybe just red colour makes them mad (i wonder if all this has any connection with bulls!? Red-bull? Redbull... :mrgreen: :haha: ) But its exactly as you pointed out...Alonso is FAR from dominating...he would have to change many many more diapers before he would really dominate F1 (if ever). :p :haha: But all those crazy rules along with his great luck this year...will make him a champion...(although he wasnt on tv screens for more than maybe 30 mins in last 5 races...he was just like some Button,Trulli,Klien,Coulthard and others...AVERAGE... :doh: :think: :? )... BUT People...heads up...that our new champion we are talking about...HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA...Champion my a55... :mrgreen: :twisted: :cool: :haha: :naughty:

    200% CORRECT! :mrgreen: Its not about Ferrari...that has nothing to do with it...its about competitive racing...with lots of action, some breath-taking overtaking and doesnt care if that would be Kimi,Alonso,Sato or even Karthikeyan...doesnt care at all...the point is that today there is no more real action...they mostly overtake 1 or 2 cars and thats it...and the final result list is almost the same as qualifying they just copy&paste it....(and meanwhile they do that lottery to get more randomized that noone could accuse them of anything... :p :mrgreen: :twisted: :haha: )

    Boring Boring Boring is all I can say... :doh: :wall: :evil:

    Maybe next year there will be progress in the right way...cause it cant be much worse than it is...thats why i am optimistic and look, hope and :pray: for the brighter future of F1 racing... :clap: :thumb: ;)
  20. Mike

    Mike Newbie

    when you don't support anyone, you tend not to care who wins. altho i wouldn't mind for giancarlo, rubens to win a few more before their time is up.

    i'll admit tho that in rubens' case, joining ferrari has certainly given rubens quite a few highlights in his career as before that it was nothing worth mentioning. what happened in austria in 2002 however, was absolutly unacceptable as rubens well and truely deserved to win that race.

Share This Page