The Pirated Software Discussion Thread!

I think instead of demeaning everyone, we should give people more credit for their intelligence.

Maybe I'm an optimist. But I have seen people learn to use P2P software within 5 minutes. So, I don't think it's that hard to learn. Try it.

Laser quality prints on an inkjet at only 5 sen (USD 0.013)? You got to be kidding.

I AM saying that very thing. Software companies SHOULD offer software to students and retirees for FREE.

If it's not because of social obligations, then they should do it for their own good. Both to eradicate piracy as well as indirectly encouraging increased sales.

What I have done with my BIOS guide is not enough? Remember, unlike other people, I have backed my words with action.

ROTFL! From which dark pit on Earth did you pick that philosophy out from?

IMHO, it sounds like you got screwed pretty badly. That's probably why you are so interested in screwing other people back!

Seriously..

There are THOUSANDS of ways to make money. Some ways involve screwing people over. Other ways do not. I believe in NOT screwing people over just for money.

Of course, I'm not saying my way is the RIGHT way. You make the choices, you live with the consequences.

Oh really? Then how come there ARE people who buy original software? Your general statement makes it sound like EVERYONE will buy pirated software if they have the choice.

Well, we had the choice to use pirated software for ARP but we did not. This example alone shows how flawed your theory is.

I think not. I think the software industry needs a paradigm shift. It has been stuck in the old rut of thinking in terms of profit per copy, instead of overall profit.

If Microsoft drops the price of Windows XP, it won't take them five years to see the benefits.

That's not true at all. In industries that have heavy competition, companies have to price accordingly. If they price too high, they lose sales to other companies. That keeps the prices low.

On the other hand, in an industry with less competition, like our telecommunications industry for example, a single company can monopolize the ENTIRE industry. Look at our Telekom Malaysia. Everything goes through them.

As a monopoly, they don't have to worry about competition. They can charge as much as they want. Therefore, it is a world of difference from an industry with a lot of competition.

The opinion that you have to pay what we ask you to pay, is frankly, nothing short of pure arrogance. But one that's no doubt well suited to the philosophy of screwing people over to make money.

But guess what, nature favours equilibrium. People find ways to adapt / force a change. Piracy is a result of such a situation in the software industry.

Unless the software industry change the way they think.. piracy will always be rampant.

Yes, but an opinion based on facts and common sense.

That may be because you think that people do not have the moral fibre to make the right judgement. Try not to think so harshly of your fellow human beings.

IMHO, until you try that method out, you will never know. It's very easy to say, "I personally think" but it's a totally different thing to actually do it and then comment.

I will have to check my contract but if I'm not mistaken, Prentice-Hall actually does something like that. One thing's for sure, academic institutions are getting massive discounts on my book as well as other books.

BTW, please don't say people don't give software away for free. We have already stated many times that even Microsoft is giving their software away for free.

Err.. So far, all the litigation exercises have done little to improve the situation. And they cost software companies so much in litigation fees. That's a net loss.

As for my suggestion, until software companies try it out, you never know, would you? All you can do is say, "I don't think it will work.".

If software companies are kiasu (afraid to lose), then there is nothing more to be said. The situation will continue as it is.

Without a shift in their thinking, there can be no solution to this problem.

 

Do you think a company like Microsoft will allow a developer to use his personal copy, instead of an official copy?

BTW, I personally don't think even Microsoft will allow you to install your personal software in a company computer.

Besides, if you actually buy SoundForge, would you install it in a company computer??

 

Err... Did you actually read what Chai wrote?

He said, if original software was CHEAPER, he would buy original software. He did not say he would buy original software only if it was cheaper THAN pirated software.

That is a sentiment that many people have about the price of software. Whether it's true or not that software is too expensive for the effort companies put into it is not the issue. It doesn't really matter. What matters is the consumer's opinion.

Everyone has a cut-off point for buying what they want. They look at the product and make their own judgement if it's worth buying. If it's way too expensive, they can either choose an alternate product or resort to pirated products.

So, by setting the price point, software companies essentially decide the amount of piracy. Like it or not, it's a fact. If software companies refuse to acknowledge that, then they will never be able to fight piracy conclusively.

BTW, piracy in Malaysia is not that rampant? LOL!! Seriously, do you actually believe that?

Maybe you should tell BSA or SPA. See what they tell you in response.

 

Err.. Facts?

The fact is P2P software is incredibly popular and easy to use. That's why there are so many people using it, from the very young to the very old.

If you want a stamp of guarantee on the ease of use and popularity of P2P software, try asking the RIAA.

Err.. Earlier you told me to use an inkjet, now it's a laser printer.

Okay, the laser printer prints at 5 sen a page. Each page cost 3 sen, for example. Let's add in the cost of electricity at 2 sen a page.

The BOG book has 368 pages. So the cost of printing the entire book in just black and white laser print, without cover, would be RM 36.80 (USD 9.68).

That is the absolute minimum cost of printing the BOG book yourself, with no binding or cover. And it doesn't include the cost of distributing the book to all over the world.

And let's say we give away 10,000 copies for free, the cost = RM 368,000 (USD 96,800). Is that your idea of almost for nothing?

Err.. One minute you say that content is content and it doesn't matter how you deliver it, by book or online. Now, you are saying the opposite. Do make up your mind!

If what you said earlier is what you meant, then the book and the website are the same things.

If software publishers do that, then kudos to them. I'm not saying that's the wrong way. At least, they give options to the consumer. Like WinRAR, for example.

But that's not the way Microsoft or other large software companies do things. At least not yet. They don't give away crippled/simpler versions of Microsoft Word, do they?

Nope. That's called making a living.

A small percentage? ROTFL!

Why don't we just throw everyone into jail first and weed out that small good percentage?

Your thinking, I'm sorry to say, is seriously flawed. Why?

If original software is cheaper than the pirated version, EVERYONE would buy original software, not most people.

Who in the right mind would buy the pirated version if the original version is cheaper? Illogical thinking, isn't it?

Nah, I will not only wager that more people will buy original software if it's significantly cheaper, I would even GUARANTEE that.

Err.. What has using pirated software for an online website got to do with anything?

How will Microsoft or other companies know? Think about it.

We can do whatever we want on our server. No one will know. Why should we support original software? Think about that.

Minority? That's generalizing. Show me the numbers that back up your opinions for once.

If it's a conjecture, it's based on calculated analysis of the situation.

And like I said earlier, we cannot always calculate success in the amount of money generated in a certain period of time. There are other benefits that cannot be so readily gauged.

Most industry have effective competition. Only in situations like our telecommunications industry, our car industry or the software industry, do you see lack of viable competition.

Windows is the best at humanizing the OS for x86? Sorry, but I think that honour should go to the Macintosh. Windows is the only choice for most x86 users because we are all so used to it. Everyone uses it.

In situations where there is no effective competition, prices get inflated. It's only natural. Therefore, the company SHOULD balance profit against social obligations. If it doesn't, well, people find a way, won't they?

Like it or not, the laws of physics apply even in this situation. Dominant companies can do what they like, but nothing can stop everyone else from pushing back until there is an equilibrium.

Try asking Maxis or Celcom.

Telekom Malaysia is not a monopoly? What does Telekom Malaysia's exclusive ownership of the last mile and external communications imply? Free market? ROTFL!

Ask yourself then why no other companies seem to be able to acquire the license to provide the last mile access or communications to other countries.

You don't have to do that. You can just walk off or buy something else. That's the difference.

Besides, the shopkeeper just sells goods. He doesn't make them or dictate the price level. And he has plenty of competition to ensure he doesn't inflate prices.

Piracy = greed? ROTFL!

If software pirates are greedy, then why do they distribute pirated copies of software for free? Even if you buy pirated CDs, why do they bother selling them for prices as low as RM 3 (USD 0.79) when they can sell them for 10X as much and still remain a LOT cheaper than original software? Is that really greed?

BTW, I have never heard of book piracy. What's that?

Again, what's book piracy??

Do you mean plagiarism? I think that's a totally different topic altogether.

Video piracy? IMHO, the cost of video DVD/CDs are a sign of greed. Video studios have a choice of lowering prices to make videos more affordable but like the software industry, they refuse to compromise.

Look at the prices of video CDs versus DVDs. The price of manufacturing both is almost similar. The difference is probably a dollar or so at most. But the retail prices of DVDs are inflated beyond that of video CDs.

Would a well-adjusted human being not balk at the high price of DVDs? You can get an original video CD (two CDs) for RM 16.90 (USD 4.44) but an original DVD costs over RM 120 (USD 31.58).

If the cost price of a single DVD is actually less than TWO CDs (in a video CD movie), why are they charging so much more? After all, in your own opinion, the content is the same.

Actually, there are many facts. You just choose to ignore them, even those based on common sense.

As a med student? What has me being a med student got to do with anything?

Most people will copy stuff it was easy to do so? Well, look at the online community. Bloody easy to copy stuff and call them your own. But MOST people still refrain from doing so. That's a FACT.

Nope. OEMs ARE getting massive discounts on Windows XP. But not ordinary people buying Windows XP or other software.

Well, look at the numbers yourself. If it's a devious crime that everyone abhors, yes, prosecuting someone will get the message across.

But the problem is MOST people already think the current situation to be deplorable. And litigating people will only raise the public's ire towards "large, faceless corporations" with nothing but profit in their eyes.

That's why, when it comes to piracy, the pirates will always remain Robin Hoods to the people.. until and unless the software industry changes their mindset.

Oh really? Then software companies are doing a piss-poor job of informing consumers of just how much effort went into their software.

Stop blaming the consumers. Software companies have a bad habit of just saying, "I spent XX million dollars on creating this software so you better pay me XXXXX dollars a copy or else".

Even someone will a little gray matter will ask the question, "How the heck did you come up with XX million dollars?" and "If I pay XXXXX dollars a copy and you sell XXXXX copies, why, wouldn't you get profits of 1000X more than your cost? Why, isn't that highway robbery?"

 

That's odd. How come I don't experience anything like that?? Anyone else with the same problem?

As for getting logged out, well, we set the cookie to only 1 hour. That's plenty of time for you to reply actually.

FYI, this is the forum software used by all the big hardware sites. Like a lot of things in ARP, we do not scrimp on our community members.

 

Err.. Why would I need to ask Papercut? I have downloaded plenty of stuff before. Never been hit by a virus or trojan.

Neither have my cousins or brothers (all avid downloaders) been hit by anything of this sort.

Like I said, if you have a little common sense, viruses and trojans won't be that big of a problem. But if one insists on being a Chicken Little, then nothing will convince the person that the sky isn't going to fall on our heads.

It IS a big difference.

Inkjets cost a lot more to print each page. Please don't tell me you didn't know that.

Consider that as the cost of running the printer as well as the cost of the printer divided by the number of pages.

Try doing your own calculations for once.

Ahh.. content is still content. You said it.

So, what's your point? You are just circling around, rebutting for the sake of rebutting, with no point whatsoever.

Oh, for God's sake, Microsoft Works is not a simplified version of Microsoft Word. I know they both start with the letter W but no, they are NOT the same.

Heck, the documents don't even use the same file format!

And BTW, they didn't give Works out for free. If you have to pay for something, why the heck would you want to pay for something that crippled?

Woah.. Now, that's low, man..

Maybe that's what you do, but that's not what I'm doing. So, please do not use the word "you" quite so liberally.

Unlike your business model, I have not only provided a book for people who can afford to purchase, I have also provided a free online version of the book for those who cannot afford. There is a CHOICE, if you still fail to notice.

In addition, I have fought contractually for the upcoming e-book version of the guide to be significantly cheaper than the printed book. If I wanted to screw people over, I wouldn't be giving them choices.

Agreed! For the same reason, BE FAIR to everyone. Do not judge them GUILTY just because you have such a low opinion of your fellow human beings.

And where did you get this "fact" from? LOL!!

I really don't know what to say. This is so funny!

Okay, let me put it in ANOTHER way.

If people can buy original DVDs for less than pirated DVDs, you actually think people would still buy pirated DVDs because they want to support piracy?

Yeah, I can tell. Based on this thread, I cannot disagree.

MS Works? LOL! That's a laugh. MS Works is a lite-version of Word with a different file format, etc. and you want people to consider it as a cheaper version of Word? You gotta be kidding me.

And you are evidently not reading what I wrote. When I said, "Sell Windows XP and other applications at a lower price", I meant selling the SAME application as they are selling now but at a lower price.

Let me put it back to you. How sure are you that someone will know?

Which, in other words, means you have nothing at all. What a shame.. I thought better of you.

IF it is, at least it's a logical conjecture.

Like I said, if you do not change your thinking from dollars and cents in a certain period of time, then you will never figure it out. Evidently, you cannot see beyond the profit per copy.

If it's a flop and the company fails, it's the consumer's fault, is it?

Nope. It's still a monopoly. Because there is a lack of viable competition, it IS a monopoly. Not only I think so. The US Justice Department as well as EU thinks the same.

There are. One of them is called anti-trust and Microsoft has been fined a few times over this. If you want more info, do a little reading - http://www.antitrust.org/

Nope. That's what YOU are saying.

No, it doesn't prove that people are just evil at heart. It proves we are not as stupid as you think we are.

Nope. That's a discreet way of saying, please go read up on it yourself. Don't wait to be spoonfed.

Again, go read up on it yourself. If we have all read up on it before commenting, why can't you?

Like I said, most products have lots of competition. That keeps prices down.

Certain software also face viable competition. But not ALL. Some software have virtual monopoly in the market that their price is not dictated by market forces but how much the company wants to make.

That's the difference.

Nope. Open your eyes. Plenty of shops around. Want to buy hardware? Go to Low Yat Plaza. Look at the competition there. THAT'S competition.

Where else? Try the IRC channels or any P2P software.

And if they make a HUGE profit from selling CDs at RM 3, just how much will they make from original software, I wonder...

If you say so.

Evidently, most people don't think so. Otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing this, would we?

I think the first thing you have to admit is that people generally think that the price of certain software are grossly inflated.

So, deleted scenes and commentary are worth more than the actual movie.. I see.

How cheap, pray tell me.

Look at your own reply. I quoted you above too. You said, content is content.

But you will agree that SOME stuff are worth copying, right?

Then why isn't anyone copying them?

Plain-vanilla discounts? LOL! Where? What discounts?

BTW, OEM discounted software is not limited to large OEMs. You can get OEM versions if you are a reseller. Yes, you can even buy a SINGLE OEM copy. So, you are NOT entirely correct in saying that.

So, the question is if they can provide discounts for resellers, why not for students and retirees?

Alternative editions? They work if you give them away for free. Look at WinRAR. They gave a slightly crippled version away for free. And they are still alive and well today.

Really? How do you know?

Or else? Oh, let's try Microsoft's method. We will just stop supporting the older version. How's that?

Like you don't exaggerate?

That's to illustrate TWO points.

1. If software companies can come up with arbitrary cost figures, so can consumers.

2. Instead of looking to profit as much from a single copy, it's actually more important to profit more overall.

 

Honestly, I think there are WAY WAY more trojan from emails then downloading from P2Ps or websites.

 

Huh.. What kind of data did you base your assumption on?

Right now, all the hoo-haa over trojans and viruses are because of the spread via e-mail. That's what got many people infected, not via the P2P network.

How do you infect an MPEG file? Or an AVI file?