A work experience to share

vien · Sep 28, 2005

From my personal work experience..... believe me this could really happen:
This is the first mail I got:

Facts.

China - 60 000 000 muslim
U.S.A. - 6 000 000 muslim
Indonesia - 1 billion muslim
Malaysia - 10 000 000 muslim
The Whole world - 5 billion and growing more each day.

One fifth of the world population clean themselves with running water and their hands. 60 millions of them in China alone.

Please re think or at least respect as much as we respect different cultures.

Regards,

XXX
Muslim and a Bsc Comp. Hons. holder with all the respects for different cultures and religion.
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vien · Sep 28, 2005

So I don't get what he means, and ask him further what he wants to say really. Then came his reply:

Ehmm, ok , lets just make it plain, i know most of the times u can be a loose cannon speaking your mind without considering the consequences. I mean the day when u emphasize use your hands, which last time you said about getting grossed hearing how some we malay or to be exacting muslim wash ouserlves after using the toilet, i mean just to let you know, billion of people out there are doing that, and its very prejudice of you to speak your mind that loud since we kept to ourself about our feeling of gross knowing that some people just wipe theirs off. See? it is a matter of culture and belief, as a malay and moslem, i wa not offended when u complain about the smell of smog but the phrase use your hand offend me , and as a chinese, u should understand better about it since u live along with us in Malaysia and 60 000 million people from your native country are Muslim too. I mean no harm, just something to discuss hoping that we could speak in general terms since we all speak in general terms an not specifically focus on something racial.
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vien · Sep 28, 2005

I was like.. "what the fark??"...Then this is my reply to him:

Hi, I would like to explain something first coz there's grave misunderstanding here. regarding to the statement:

"...I mean the day when u emphasize use your hands, which last time you said about getting grossed hearing how some we malay or to be exacting muslim wash ouserlves after using the toilet, i mean just to let you know, billion of people out there are doing that, and its very prejudice of you to speak your mind that loud since we kept to ourself about our feeling of gross knowing that some people just wipe theirs off. "

my POV is from the hygienic side, and it's DEFINITELY not a racist or religion remark. I think it's gross because it's not clean. And I apologize coz my statement cause you to misunderstand.

however regarding to the statement

"i wa not offended when u complain about the smell of smog but the phrase use your hand offend me , and as a chinese, u should understand better about it since u live along with us in Malaysia and 60 000 million people from your native country are Muslim too. I mean no harm, just something to discuss hoping that we could speak in general terms since we all speak in general terms an not specifically focus on something racial."

you have a serious problem misinterprering my hand gesture. you just SMOKED in a SHARED toilet. I hate smoke, my hand gesture is as NORMAL as anyone who TRIES TO WAVE AWAY THE SMOKE. I don't see why that common gesture should be INTERPRERED as a RACIST remark against muslims. And if you are concerned about all the other colleague's health, you should at least not smoke in the toilet and thereby endangering the health of others, because we all share one common toilet.

and lastly, if you have an issue to raise, please speak up on the spot and don't drag on until the person is going to leave the company. And for your heatlh concern, drop that cigarette before it's too late. I know how exactly it feels to have a lung disease.
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and to be safe, I cc my reply to my two team leaders.

vien · Sep 28, 2005

Then came my team leader's reply to both of us...

I don't mean to interrupt, but this issue needs to be closed. I couldn't believe that such matter is being brought up to such level. Shame on you XXX for making a point out of nothing. Vien, on behalf of XXX, i would like to apologize for raising such issue, especially when you're leaving the company.

You guys are adults, and being one, i believe both of you already know that this issue is not worth mentioning. Vien, i do understand exactly your words and i put my blame to XXX for not understanding a simple gesture or a simple joke, and taking it quite seriously. XXX, such sensitive issue should never being brought up since u already know that bringing up such issue will effect a lot of people. We are Malaysian and Malaysia consists of different kind/race of peoples - does that ring any bell?

And btw, Vien's word does have a point.. smoking is bad.. i mean really really bad. Not only for you, but to all the people around you!! Better spend your money to something else rather than cigarettes. (hint: go and buy a condom!! haha just kidding).

So, apologies to both of you from me on any words that i type may offend you, but hey - reality bites!!
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vien · Sep 28, 2005

Then came XXX's reply to me....

PLEASE READ THIS, I AM GIVING THIS TO YOU AS AN ADVICE FROM A FRIEND< PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY CONCERN.

Hello bang,
banyak susah la this way, since u tak faham my english, u are the one misinterpreting everything, maybe you should read it carefully.
Here i bold the Main points

Hi, I would like to explain something first coz there's grave
misunderstanding here. regarding to the statement:"...I mean the day
when u emphasize use your hands, which
last time you said about getting grossed hearing how some we malay
or to be exacting muslim wash ouserlves after using the toilet, i
mean just to let you know, billion of people out there are doing
that, and its very prejudice of you to speak your mind that loud
since we kept to ourself about our feeling of gross knowing that
some people just wipe theirs off. "
my POV is from the hygienic side, and it's DEFINITELY not a racist or religion remark. I think it's gross because it's not clean. And I apologize coz my statement cause you to misunderstand.
however regarding to the statement "i was not offended when u complain about the smell of smog but the phrase "use your hand offend me" ,

and as a chinese, u should understand better about it since u live
along with us in Malaysia and 60 000 million people from your
native country are Muslim too. I mean no harm, just something to
discuss hoping that we could speak in general terms since we all
speak in general terms an not specifically focus on something racial."
For the above part, u must know that somehow u have a feel good of urself attitude, on the hygienic side, cleanin with running water is the cleanest u get, more cleaner then wiping it off. Thats why every medical thing is clean with running water and boiled too. I've never made this statement and say wa u all lap pakai tisu saja ka? i could be saying that but since i know i'm in a multiracial country, i respect ur culture. when we ask for a hose u question and ask why and then gross about the fact we use running water but have i ever speak out about toilet paper?

you have a serious problem misinterprering my hand gesture. you just SMOKED in a SHARED toilet. I hate smoke, my hand gesture is as
NORMAL as anyone who TRIES TO WAVE AWAY THE SMOKE. I don't see why that common gesture should be INTERPRERED as a RACIST remark against muslims. And if you are concerned about all the other colleague's health, you should at least not smoke in the toilet and thereby endangering the health of others, because we all share one common toilet.

Now read the above statement from me and read ur interpretation see the prhrase, i was not offended means i agree about the smoking part and i have been going to Petronas because i understand about sharing, but it was raining that day. see again the phrase but the but the phrase "use your hand offend me" not your hand gestures. u said it, use ur hand, i know ur a loose cannon and most of the time u speak without thinking. i could have replied, "that toilet got hose, we need running water, u pergi la toilet lagi satu, u bukan basuh pun, u pakai lap aja" but i didn't. Why? because i respect and i am not going to stereotype your culture just because of what u , an individual, did.

and lastly, if you have an issue to raise, please speak up on the
spot and don't drag on until the person is going to leave the
company. And for your heatlh concern, drop that cigarette before it's too late. I know how exactly it feels to have a lung disease.
If i were to speak on the spot, this would have became racial, and to tell you the truth, by saying what u said that day, if i highlighted it up, it would be very severe to you, i give it to you in this private matter is for you to rethink it, i am brought up in a multiracial society, where most of my friends are indians and chinese, we learn to respect, we dont make fun of other people cultures or use it against them for our personal dissatisfaction. From the way you talk i understand u come from a chinese dominant society, but remember we are Malaysian, That day i say, C'mon la, you're not staying anyway, because i dont want to make racial attacks instead, i put a more generally accepted reply, please, i am not here to argue, i know about the smog and i agree to that but please, be more sensitive, and to make ypu feel the hurt i'll put aphrase below, not anything racial, just to let you know how we feel.

"waaa, u just wipe ur shit off a? how u sure no leftover? haiyaa, what if u berak cair? u still just wipe it off a? ur butt dont get sticky afterwards hahaha eiyee next time i am not going to sit next to you"

See how offensive insensitivity could be. Remember 13th of Mei 1969. We dont want that to happen again where hundreds of malays and chinese died fighting each other.
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vien · Sep 28, 2005

How dare he even try to bring up May 13?! I just forward this reply of his to my team leaders again

And I just simply reply to XXX:

Hi XXX,

thank you for your concern.

regards,
vien
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vien · Sep 28, 2005

I know that ARP is also a multi-racial community. I would really like to hear from our fellow muslim members regarding this situation. This is really terrible, some ******* is trying to, like my leader said, make a point out of nothing at all!

And possibly just provide us tips on how to handle this kind of evil colleague who tries to hand you into trouble?

Dashken · Sep 28, 2005

And the point is?

What actually happened that day?

LOL! I predict that this will not go any where. Everything will end with... it's sensitive. Remember May 13, you want it to reoccur?

So, in the end, we will just have to keep quiet because we are not very very sure exactly what happened that day. No written history that we can read of. Only from the experience of people that actually experienced part of it. And how can we be sure what they said is true and not exaggerated?

I really wish I can read what happened that day... but those written words are bound to be bias as well.

zy · Sep 28, 2005

he thinks muslims only do that ?
does he ever thought that non muslim also does that ?

thinking bout himself only

Dashken · Sep 28, 2005

Yeah...

DYKT: Last time during my uni days... whenever I buy toilet paper, some people will look at me weirdly... damn.. wtf is wrong with that?

Trinity · Sep 28, 2005

Why would anyone look at you funny for buying toilet paper?

Dashken · Sep 28, 2005

Well, maybe because those people that looked at me funny don't use toilet paper.

PsYkHoTiK · Sep 28, 2005

Trinity said:

Why would anyone look at you funny for buying toilet paper?
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Maybe he wipes his nose with it afterwards.... LMAO!

Joking!

Trinity · Sep 28, 2005

Dashken said:

Well, maybe because those people that looked at me funny don't use toilet paper.

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You have got to be kidding me...

vien · Sep 28, 2005

This is his reply to the team leader.... what an ***

Please read.

To all , i since everyone misunderstood, actually vien misunderstood my explanations, and its not the hand gestures that offended me but more of the words he use, especially the word gross, as that is un acceptable, about the smoking part that one is accepted and is not my pitn or issues. Anyway i have explained what vien has misunderstood, and thank you for making this public, this was intended as a private e mail, just as a matter to be re think and not to be escalated to such levels as it has been now, and to tell u the truth, now that this is public, i'd say its good it is put down to a halt, but i by any means reject all blame appointed to me, as an adult and for those who knew me, i can assure i can accept if i am wrong, but in this issue, i was giving a friendly advice on sensitive issues as positive thing. I emphasize here again that i reject all blames on this issue and the phrase pointed to me before "use your hands" and "you use your hands aaa, thats grose" is very offending as a malay muslim. Vien has misinterpreted the email i sent him and this is not a matter of hand gesture if he is kind enough to forward to u the actual explanation of the mail i re explain to him.

Anyway i really regret this to be a public matter as IT IS NOT SUPPOSE to because of the sensitive matter which might now matter to some but matter much to others.

Regards,

XXX
(not a perfect muslim but still remember i am a malay muslim and a Malaysian)
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vien · Sep 28, 2005

Thank god I made it known to the team leaders else I'll still have to listen to all that ****.

Obviously both of us have a very different view on hygiene and toilet paper I would really like to hear an muslim's POV on this issue.

Falcone · Sep 28, 2005

Honestly no offence I dun think we should discuss this any further, you can be right and you can be wrong (probably you are right), generaly it's a misunderstanding and since you are going, voicing it to ur superior is a right move if he wants to continue just forward it to your superior like wat you have been doing, replying him would just make it worst as it is. There nothing else you can do but to sit and wait till the day. Good Luck!

This is very sensitive issue... BTW shouldn't this be in 'general disscussion'?

vien · Sep 28, 2005

I understand, thank you

Mad1 · Sep 28, 2005

and I still dont understand wth is going on

doraemon · Sep 28, 2005

Trinity said:

You have got to be kidding me...
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Trin, FYI...our muslim fren here using hand for that business instead of toilet paper. i have a lot of malay muslim fren during my school time and all of them are using hand for tat, this is because using hand is more clean instead of the paper, after u wipe with paper...it may left some to ur..u-know-where and cause some sickness.... do i need to go further?

I'M NOT MALAY MUSLIM AND SOMETIMES I USE HAND OSO!!

this is not because of muslim or not, this is personal hygine

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