The Perpetual F1 Thread!

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Chai, Apr 19, 2003.

  1. BlueStream

    BlueStream Newbie

    Guys in a tech forum obviously also like the technology among other things....

    Some of us are also tired of having to wait on one party for all the technological updates and stuff... Think the makers of Windoze. Except now we do have other choices. lol.
  2. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    A1GP too identical CHAI? Thats the whole have same cars with same HP! Only then we would be able to see who the best driver is...dont we want that? ;) :mrgreen:

    I must also say that F1 is still nr.1 to me...but...since you mentioned that it needs "proper rules"...just look what they purposed again....2.4L engines...max.8 cylinders...lower I believe this isnt a way to go...not for F1 :evil: :doh: :? On the bright side...I heard that they plan to put back slick tyres in 2008 (or even sooner if all involved parties could agree) thats good... :clap: :dance: :wicked:

    Its just one big mess if someone asks are only 2 ways....either they limit everything so much that all cars will have almost equal performance (which isnt good by my opinion, but at least we would be able to separate good from bad drivers...)...orrrrr...just limit car's displacement (cc), and not allow turbo's...and leave everything else free... :wicked: :mrgreen: And if some team can get 1000HP or even 2000HP out of their what...F1 is a unique BEST OF THE BEST racing...the king and queen of let it stay that way --- would be very interesting to see what engineers can come out with... :thumb: :haha: :beer: :clap: :dance:

    Cause this whole "limiting game" is bad for F1...soon it will be just an average racing if that trend continues....2.4L V8...come on people...street cars will soon do better than that...(some already do :wicked: )...and also it will be around F3000 performance....blahhhhh....badddddddddd... :naughty: :wall: :?

    I am still hoping for the i said many many times already....all we can do is just SIT AND WAIT and :pray: for the best...bye. :beer: :mrgreen: :wave:
  3. ZuePhok

    ZuePhok Just Started

    is montoya the fattest among all the F1 drivers?
  4. BlueStream

    BlueStream Newbie

    haha.. and he's got a temper too...

    phrases like "you broke my f***ing head" come to
  5. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Hahahahaha...he surely is FatBoy Slim... :clap: :mrgreen: :haha:

    And BlueStream....hahahaha...exactly...I remember that video too....hahahahaha....butttt...the point was that if he didnt stare into that girl (wife? lover? who cares... :p ), all that wouldnt his f***ing head is to blame for all that...and not the camera guy who was just doing his job... :wicked: :beer: :dance: :thumb:
  6. empirex

    empirex Newbie

    it sis not mika,dc,ferrari,mclaren>its Alonso renault who dominate the and liverpool,any one remember liverpool were in charity shield every year oaround 80,s and people even not bother about charity shield
  7. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Engine capacity has never been a factor in making the races anymore competitive/uncompetitive. F1 cars used to only generate 200-300bhp, and that doesn't make races less exciting. Downforce is the biggest factor.

    I have not seen any street 2.4L V8 engine doing 700-800bhp... :whistle:

    Identical series? There are so many identical racing series out there that no one even bothered.
  8. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    CHAI CHAI CHAI... :mrgreen: :haha: :clap: ;)

    I agree that engine's capacity isnt everything at F1 racing...but since they spoiled us that i.e. in Monza cars go 360+ on with only 2.4L V8 engines...we will be far away from that... :twisted: :p But then again...thats just the numbers game...cause who cares if the car goes 300 or 400 there...important is who drives the car and at what position he is... :mrgreen: :haha:

    Identical identical...sure they are identical...and will be even more...and thats why F1 needs that "advantage" which it always had among all other racing competitions...and that was faster,better,safer and everything of the best actually in all what I was trying to say was that with 2.4L engines...we may say goodbye to extreme speeds....cause F3000 could do almost the same (probably not cause they will still leave that edge to F1...but anyway...speed factor is one of the most extreme ones for many dont know...we'll have to wait and see...over some time we will get used to that...I dont doubt we did from the end of "F1 Turbo era"....). :wicked: :beer: ;)

    And about street cars with 2.4L V8....I never said that they produce 800HP...and even F1 cars wont do that - not with 2.4L! But...there were/are some cars that are very close to that...and could easily acchieve 1000HP+ (even at only 2.4L! - cause dont forget that F1 produced 1200HP+ in turbo era...and at only 1500ccm if i am correct! Such power wasnt available for entire race but at least gave F1 drivers the option to boost performance in critical moments of the race...many engines blow up because of that in those times!). So...just put some engine like that into body of todays car (reinforced offcourse to handle such brutal power)...and off you go.... :whistle: :thumb:

    ...already a way back (1987) there were engines that produced 750HP at only 2L!!! (read here) So the power is definitely available...but the endurance would be another big question here... :doh: :cool:

    Some cars with 2000-3500ccm and 500HP+...

    - 1999 BMW Breyton 3ER Kompressor (3200ccm, 528HP)

    - 1995 Jaguar TWR XJ220 S (3500ccm,680HP)

    - 1994 Ferrari Hamann F40 (2936ccm,619HP)

    - My favourite...RENAULT ESPACE F1 (nice family car... :wicked: :mrgreen: :haha: ) (3500ccm,800HP!)

    Then you also have 1999 Ferrari Koenig F50 (with slightly bigger displacement - 4700ccm, but brutally 828HP!)

    At the end...maybe the best overclocker :mrgreen: :haha: :haha: WANKEL motor!

    - 1998 Mazda Pettit Racing RX-7 Banzai Edition (with 2000ccm and 550HP!>>so at 2400ccm(1/5th more ccm) it would produce some 660HP! (1/5 more power) - also "ordinary" Mazda Rx7 produced around 240HP at only 1300ccm...also impressive number...if considered that it didnt use turbo to acchieve that!)

    Check FantasyCars website for other exotic cars...

    So at the end...who cares about few HP more or less...the point I was trying to say was...that F1 wont be SOOOOO much impresive,state-of-the-art and unique with those tiny 2.4L' least not from performance's side of view...maybe in some other areas...but certainly not at performance! Thats all... :p :wicked: :beer: :clap: :dance: :mrgreen: :haha: :thumb:
  9. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Ermm...ALL of the cars mentioned above are forced induction engines (with the exception of the Espace since it's basically an F1 'van'), while the currect F1 engine are NAs which is a great achievement. So it's not even a fair comparison. Yes, 2.4L V8 will produce approximately 700BHP, but it will go up to 800BHP with further development, just like the current V10 doing almost 1000BHP.

    F1 is more than just a racing series. It has so many other elements which makes it such a unique motorsport event. Top speed does not make F1 special. If you want outright speed, please proceed to IRL. ;) 260mph is normal. :mrgreen:

    This season would have been great if the fastest driver and car wins the world championship. But that's not the case. I hate the point scoring system, the one engine rule, one tyre rule. All because of FIA trying to slow down the cars by forcing the teams to concentrate on consistency rather than speed and talent.

    10-6-4-3-2-1 was such a great point scoring system. Winner deserves far more than just 2 point advantage over the 2nd.
  10. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    Don't forget, even the current V10 3L is puny compare to many road cars. Even the M5 E60 has got 500+bhp V10 5L.
  11. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Yesssssssssss... :mrgreen:

    Look...who actually cares if road car engine could produce same power as F1 engine...cause even if that was possible...that car still couldnt go nowhere close to F1 car...not in acceleration...not in top speed....nothing...because road cars are much heavier and arent so aerodynamic... :thumb: So lets put this story aside for a while... :twisted: ;)

    I also know that top speed isnt the only great thing at the complete "package" that makes it so unique...and i also know for myself that i am gonna watch it many more years for sure...(even if they would drive with some 50HP engines...HAHAHAHHAAHAHHA... :clap: :dance: :mrgreen: :haha: :twisted: :wicked: )...

    I just used that road car - F1 car example to trying to explain that with current rules (and those new ones for the seasons to come) could happen that possible that F1 just wont be best-of-the-best in motorsport...cause if you look back...F1 was the one which always created all trends and new technologies to be later used in ordinary cars...but with 2.4L engines...and all kinds of other just wont be possible for engineers to come with some new great never-yet-seen innovative improvements (because their hands will be too much "tied" from all those limitations) maybe THEY will be the ones to LEARN from "ordinary" car manufacturers...which again would be very bad...thats what i wanna say with that example...that nowadays its nothing NEW to make 2.4L engine with 700HP to last for those 300 or 600km (2 races)...even Mercedes can do that for ordinary cars if they only wanted to...(but the question would be who would pay for "ordinary" car with 2.4L 700HP engine which would last for only 10 cruises around the city...hahahahaha). :mrgreen: :haha: :haha: :cool:

    The point is....that FIA makes all problems with their nonstop changes....thats what sux...thats what angers me... :wall: :doh: I also agree with you that previous scoring system was much better....cause the winner deserves more than just 2 points more than 2nd placed driver...otherwise it could always happen like this year....that some driver might win maybe first 3 or 4 races at the start oft the season...and then just be lucky for the rest of the season...(score maybe some 2nd, 3rd,5th, or even 8th places)....and....still be the Alonso will probably be this year (btw...i dont doubt in his great driving skills...he is very good driver...but...its this scoring system that lets him rest almost entire 2nd half of this season-and still win the championship....which sucks real bad!). :evil: :roll: :?

    FIA changed those rules because they saw that there is no other way to "throw" Schumacher from the Throne... :wall: And now they have what they wanted...and just like all that wasnt enough...they still plan some changes... :naughty: :doh: But changes or no changes...this year MS was defeated...little because of rules...little because of bad luck....and mostly because of bad material (car)...but trust year all this wont happen for sure! :wicked: :clap: :dance: :haha: :thumb:

    Like you said CHAI...FIA is trying to slow down the cars with all those new rules...but this way...talent wont play any important role anymore (which they always say that it will have greater role with those new rules, but thats simply not the case), it would be LUCK that will take talent's role... :twisted: And FIA also said they will cut costs because of those rules(one engine,tyres,etc...)...but thats also not the case...cause all the teams can tell you that they spend exactly the same if not even more with those new rules (and some say that they simply spend as much as they get - i.e...those who get $50M...will spend them all...and also those who get $300M...will also spend nothing changed here...not with those new rules)...

    Its all just one big mess...but I still have hope that everything will be back to normal someday (hopefully soon enough)... :doh: :wicked: :whistle:

    And now...I will sit down..maybe have some :beer: and slowly wait for this weekend's qualifying and race....lets see Renault-Mclaren's battle...HAHAHAHA...Maybe MS could help Kimi now....with not letting Alonso pass...hahahaha...lets wait and see... :clap: :mrgreen: :haha: :wave:
  12. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    RAIN RAIN RAIN...dominates SPA.... :mrgreen: :twisted:

    But...who cares...isnt it much nicer to look at some pics (like the one below...than to constanly keep our brain cells overclocked to the maximum because of all those FIA-F1 love relationship issues... :wicked: :beer: ;)

    Attached Files:

  13. Chai

    Chai Administrator Staff Member

    LMAO! Things on F1 has never brought any good to road cars. Traction control? For noobs. Active suspension? Nothing like the F1 car. Launch control? Quite useless too.

    Sorry, but I still can't see how I should agree with you. F1 will still be the pinnacle of motorsport with V8 2.4L with high pitch engines and still has very complex aerodynamics, even with the new rules, it will still generate for more downforce than any road car.

    The rule change I hate the most is easily the qualifying system and the points system. Then again, Alonso will still lead the championship if we revert back to the old system...
  14. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    You just laugh CHAI...but its true! :p F1 produced many inventions for todays cars...maybe not so many for "ordinary" cars with 1.3L and basic equipment...but more "advanced" higher class cars surely have many inventions from F1 (that are today almost common so we mostly dont even know they are there and who invented them).

    I wont count all of them cause there are too many (just try some Google for more if you like)... :mrgreen: ;)

    The first is VTEC by Honda...and this is one BIG acchieve almost the same power as turbo's do...and all that with much lower fuel consumption and without "turbo hole" effect... VTEC rocks...either you like it or not...just try some Honda Civic VTEC with 1.6 and 160HP(even up to 185HP!) or 1.8 with 180 (or even 200HP and more HP's)...and you'll know what I'm talking about... :clap: :mrgreen:
    More about VTEC here...

    Then brakes...especialy Carbon ones...F1 style gearbox with changing gears behind the wheel...also all kinds of other inventions (some of which you also pointed out) actually have roots at your statement that road cars didnt gain NOTHING good from F1 is VERY WRONG! :naughty: :evil: :? Because agree with me or not...almost ALL inventions for today middle&high class cars came from F1....either directly...either they were just intensively tested with F1 cars&techology (to test those parts for durability and reliability and other important things under extreme conditions)..but in both cases they had something to do with F1...and most of them were improved much more because of that me on this one... :clap: :mrgreen:

    So to finish all this...let me just say that I agree with you that F1 is, was and will be the pinnacle of Motorsport...(btw...I never compared it to road cars...F1 will always be faster and produce more downforce....thats logical...but when compared to other motorsport wont be SO much superior anymore....not from speed&power point of view...thats what i am trying to say all this time...its also not such big deal...but its a fact...and I just wait for one day...when someone else (maybe some rich Sheik from Dubai or so.... :mrgreen: ) establish new F1-alike racing series...without FIA limitations...with bigger faster engines/cars....and with even more glamour around race itself (and give fans wider access to drivers and everything - thats really one very bad thing at F1...because it is so closed from general public...and VIP access is way to expensive for majority of people to buy it and see their favourite drivers more close and maybe say a word or two with them...thats what F1 surely lack of....better (more personal) driver-fans relationship...I know that drivers are very busy also all the weekend there...but they could at least give fans maybe an hour or so after the practice sessions...well...things are as they further comment...). And if that happen...then F1 could loose its edge...not that i want that...but...might happen... :wicked: :whistle:

    And for the end....Peace CHAI... :clap: ;) Its just my opinion...just as you have yours....which is ok....we dont need to agree on everything (it would be too boring if all people agreed on everything... :mrgreen: ) I just hope you dont take that too personal... ;) :wave: :beer: :cool:

    And here is one article from PlanetF1 (doesnt have nothing with what we talked about CHAI...but its least to me...) :D :thumb:


    Monday August 08 2005

    Former World Champion Mika Hakkinen doesn’t think Fernando Alonso or Kimi Raikkonen will ever be able to dominate Formula One the way Michael Schumacher has done.
    Michael Schumacher may not be having a great season thus far but his former rival, Mika Hakkinen, still believes he is the greatest Formula One driver ever.

    While Hakkinen was often involved in heated battles with Schumacher on the race track the Finn has always got on well with Schumacher and has great respect for the seven time World Champion.

    Schumacher’s achievements in Formula One are unrivalled and the 1998 and 1999 F1 Champions doesn’t believe there will ever be somebody with a record that comes close to it.

    “I don’t think anyone will be able to do what Michael has.” said Hakkinen to Autosport

    “Michael has made his mark in F1 for so long.”

    Despite the fact that Fernando Alonso and Kimi Räikkönen are challenging for the title this year Hakkinen doesn’t see either of them being able to challenge the German drivers record at the end of their careers.

    “When I retired he started winning non-stop. I doubt anyone will be able to repeat what he has done - neither Alonso nor Räikkönen can come close.”

    So what do you people think about it? True? False? :mrgreen:

    And statement from John Watson....

    "What has become abundantly clear is people are always underestimating how good Michael Schumacher is.”
    Former British F1 driver John Watson
  15. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: SATOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

    :mrgreen: :haha: :thumb:
  16. ZuePhok

    ZuePhok Just Started


    FISI -> ALWAYS GETS HIMSELF TROUBLE/PROBLEM..that safety car has killed kimi's hope in winning the champion... :cry:


    both are dumbass!
    1 person likes this.
  17. ZuePhok

    ZuePhok Just Started

    button is an arshole...very irresponsible...

    no matter where he will go, he wont succeed. curse him forever..
  18. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    Yes, ZuePhok....but despite all that...Alonso is still the luckiest driver of all....hahahahha...first MS went out because of Sato (and I believe with Alonso's later pace he could easily get him...maybe not overtake...but it would surely be interesting to watch that...)...and that wasnt enough...Montoya went out...and again....2nd place for him....he is just too dam* lucky this year... :wall: :doh: :twisted:

    So Kimi still has hope...but...with his "luck" (against Alonso's LUCK :p :mrgreen: ) this year...this is like mission impossible...cause I dont remember if any of 2nd placed drivers managed to close such big gap at last 3 races and won the championship... :think:

    But who cares...this season is already like finished for looking forward to next one and waiting to see what Ferrari will do to take back his crown... :p :wicked: :beer: :mrgreen: :thumb:
  19. ZuePhok

    ZuePhok Just Started

    yeah i was hoping MS to stay on track to at least give alonso some hard time..especially when alonso was still behind trulli...the turtle king who always holds up the rest :mrgreen: too bad that stupid fisi...ishhh...
  20. Johnie

    Johnie Newbie

    HAHAHAHA...turtle king...ROTFL! :haha: :haha: :haha:

    And I also hoped that MS would show Alonso some new moves....hahahahhaha...but luckily for Alonso (AGAIN! for 1842th time in a row... :wall: :twisted: ) things just didnt work out that way... And Fisi...he is just busy...with playing Italian Playboy...rather that to concentrate on racing or give his seat to some other talented driver...cause he surely wont be the champion...NEVER!... :p :mrgreen: :haha: ;)

    Lets move on...Brazil here we comeeeeeeeee.... :clap: :dance: :cool:

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